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Charlotte pointeaux chats with mentor, colleague and beautiful friend Claire baker on wild flow podcast about how we can work with the enchantress archetype to empower us to grow an aligned, soulful and impactful coaching business, and to embody feminine leadership in a patriarchal world.

Claire and I share a love of the Enchantress Archetype, who is big bold and badass, and as I put it, “she’s kind of a vibe we want to be calling into our businesses”. This conversation is juicy, rich, evocative, inspiring and nurturing all in one and is one of my favourite episodes of my wild flow podcast.

tune in to hear:

  • Who is the Enchantress and what does she mean to us both?
  • Why we would want the Enchantress energy to support us to lead in our business, especially when we’re challenged and need to dig deep?
  • How we can call on her to be with us and where she lives in our menstrual cycles, seasons and psyche.
  • Examples of how the healthy, mature Feminine aspect shows up versus the immature Maiden aspect,
  • What Feminist business practices are, and how this helps to heal the Sisterhood, and Sister Wounds.
  • How to honour your sacred creativity, and how to collaborate and empower yourself and other women around you,
  • And we touch on what its like to work with other women who are at different points in their cycle to you. 
 
Claire shares her teachers at the close of this episode, and their links are:
Get this juice in your ears, and if you love it (I know you will!) be sure to share it with a sister, business bestie, cycle awareness devotee or someone who you’d love to tune in. 

Claire Baker - Embodying The Enchantress "the enchantress is a bad bitch, fucking ruthless and so fierce. i love her"

meet Claire:

Claire Baker is a sought-after coach, speaker and author of ‘50 Things You Need To Know About Periods’. For nearly a decade Claire has taught thousands of women how to live in harmony with their menstrual cycle, rather than working against it. Claire believes menstrual cycle awareness is the missing key in women’s wellbeing, empowerment and creativity, and her immersive online courses and workshops inspire women to know their flow and become the authority in their own lives. Claire’s online program Adore Your Cycle has students in over 35 countries. 
With a background in visual arts and creative business, Claire is a certified health and life coach, has studied Menstruality Leadership and is a trained natural fertility teacher. In 2019 she founded Cycle Coach School, a facilitator training for professionals desiring to incorporate menstrual cycle awareness into their own practice. Known for her authentic voice and ability to ‘make periods fun’, Claire is regularly featured in publications such as Red, Glamour, and Women’s Health magazine. Originally from Australia, Claire now lives in sunny East London and spends her days coaching, teaching, writing, dancing and being as close to trees as she possibly can.

connect with Claire:

If you’d love to connect with Claire please visit her on:

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If you love this kind of content, you’re also invited to come and join my brand new free community – the Wild Flow Circle. It’s a sacred space for women on the same path of cycle awareness to gather, share ideas, collaborate, and surround yourself with other inspiring women living, loving and leading in flow with their cyclical nature. Come join us here

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meet your host

Charlotte Pointeaux

Charlotte Pointeaux

Charlotte Pointeaux is an Internationally Award-Winning triple-Certified Coach, Youth Mentor, Host of Wild Flow Podcast, a sought-after guest menstrual educator and speaker. She is a Shamanic Womancrafter, a Priestess of the Cycle Mysteries.

Charlotte’s work as a Wild Feminine Cycle Coach weaves together shamanic womb healing and rite of passage work with menstrual cycle awareness and feminine embodiment tools, to guide women through their transformational journey of reclaiming their wild feminine cyclic powers to expressing their big magick as a sacred leader.

Charlotte founded First Moon Circles®, a renowned facilitator training program, to train new menstrual educators to prepare, honour and celebrate children and their care-givers at menarche (their first period). To date, she has trained almost 100 facilitators across 5 continents and is on a mission to infuse families, friendships, classrooms and communities with period positivity and menstrually inclusive practices.

Download your free menstrual magick guide by subscribing to my newsletter, and discover my coaching, courses and short classes at www.charlottepointeaux.com/coaching.

transcript

[00:00] Claire Baker: For me, the enchantress is one of several feminine archetypes that that can show up in, you know, the different phases of the menstrual cycle. So in creative cycles and the female life cycle. And she is absolutely a dark feminine archetype. I actually feel quite at home in that energy. And the older I get, the more I, the more I do like it’s a mature energy, a magical energy. Her sexuality is just for her, like, it’s just for her pleasure. And that’s really very much connected to her creativity. She’s super boundary. She’s a bad bitch. She’s fucking ruthless when she needs to be and so fierce, and I love her.

 

[00:54] Charlotte Pointeaux: Welcome to Wild Flow, the podcast, with me Charlotte Pointeaux. I’m a Wild Feminine cycle coach here for the awakened woman who is ready to reclaim her body, menstrual cycle and feminine power, and to live, love and lead and flow with nature’s wisdom. In this podcast, I’ll share how you can live in sync with your menstrual cycle and life seasons, heal your relationship with your womb and rites of passages, and embody your wild feminine.

 

Claire Baker is a sought after period coach, author and speaker. For nearly a decade, Claire has taught thousands of women how to live in harmony with a menstrual cycle rather than working against it. Claire believes menstrual Cycle awareness is the missing key in women’s wellbeing, empowerment and creativity. And her immersive online courses and workshops inspire women to know their flow and become the authority in their own lives. Claire’s online program, Adore Cycle, has students in over 35 countries. With a background in visual arts and creative business. Claire is a certified health and life coach. She has studied menstruality leadership and is a trained natural fertility teacher. Known for her authentic voice and ability to make periods fun, Claire is regularly featured in publications such as Red, Glamour and Women’s Health Magazine. Originally from Australia, Claire now lives in sunny East London and spent her days coaching, teaching, writing, dancing, and being as close to trees as she possibly can. Claire has been a teacher of mine since I joined, well, for a number of years really, since I’ve been learning about menstrual Cycle awareness and came across Claire. Perhaps, perhaps Instagram was the first place that I found her.

 

[03:01] Charlotte Pointeaux: And it was quite a big moment for me when I reached out to Claire about joining her cycle coach training in 2020, when I really felt a call to deepen my knowledge and my skills around guiding women to work with their cycle. It was something that I was already doing, but it just kept coming up and up with different clients and in different conversations and it was part of my own personal journey. And the call to work with Clare was really, really strong, and I learned so much from her. But not just about how to coach and how to guide women, like I say, to connect with their cycles and to live in flow with their cyclic selves, but also about doing business as a woman in business, particularly as a coach, particularly as a solo premiere, as they call it. And not only have we struck up a beautiful friendship, but it’s been an honour to have been invited to guest mentor on Circle Coach this year in 2021 and to continue to do so into 2022. So I invited Claire on to talk about not perhaps what you expect to talk about, not we’re really talking about understanding the cycle or the seasons of the cycle or anything like that. This is a beautiful, exciting, rich, juicy, and livening, really powerful conversation about embodying the enchantress archetype in business, about feminist business practices, and about how we can really call on her energy and why we would want to do that, to help us run businesses that honour us and serve us as much as our audience. So sit back, relax, and enjoy.

 

[05:21] Charlotte Pointeaux: Hey, Claire. Welcome to Wild Flow. Thank you so much for being here. How are you going today?

 

[05:29] Claire Baker: A wonderful Charlotte. Always enjoyed to chat with you. I’m really happy to be here. Thanks for having me on your podcast. Thank you.

 

[05:38] Charlotte Pointeaux: Thank you. So excited for this chat, but let’s begin with a cycle check in. Where are you at in your cycle?

 

[05:49] Claire Baker: Cycle Day 27, which I know is also the same Cycle Day as you, but we are in very different parts of our cycle, which I think is actually quite cool to talk about. So I am literally hours away from bleeding. I think it’ll be one of those days where I know I’ve got a couple of things to do today, one of which is to be here and speak with you. And I’d say once we finish our conversation, I think I’ll start bleeding. So I’m at the very end of my cycle. Yeah.

 

[06:25] Charlotte Pointeaux: Well, thank you for being here with us in that point. Just before you bleed, how are you feeling in yourself today? What’s that feel like just before you bleed?

 

[06:38] Claire Baker: Yeah, it feels today. So yesterday, there’s a huge contrast between today and yesterday. Yesterday I was in that end of cycle productive, get lots of things wrapped up, get boxes ticked, to have that sense of completion and reflection, which I love that energy. And today I woke up and I got out of my pyjamas at about midday. I just really could feel myself moving into the cave. And it’s just like I just want to be really cosy and I’m so happy to be here and to speak with you. But if I had to show up a regular job or something today, or if I had to go out and be in the world and be really busy today, I think I might find today a bit challenging. Not impossible, but challenging. Like, I have that sensitive, quite permeable and a vulnerable feeling. Yeah. But it’s gorgeous. I can be with that and I can today. Then I feel quite lovely.

 

[07:55] Charlotte Pointeaux: Yeah.

 

[07:59] Claire Baker: Open. Very open.

 

[08:02] Charlotte Pointeaux: Thank you for sharing that. Yeah, you’re so right. I can’t even think back to how I would have felt being right before a bleed in a regular job, and I can just feel how challenging that would be. And it’s so curious now that both of you and I have created lives and businesses where we get to really honour our cycles and choose whether we do something at this point. And I think that’s such a privilege, but it’s such a priority for both of us as well. And yeah, it’s interesting you draw that comparison because I’m on the same cycle Day as you, and yet I feel like I know I haven’t Ovulated yet and I feel like it might be coming soon, I’m not quite sure. So, yeah, my cycles have been long and yours are about 27 to 28 days then my standard. Yeah. So interesting how we can a cycle day does not mean this is what it looks and feels like to you. So thank you for pointing that out. Well, I am just like, so excited for and my energy is quite different to your energy today, so that’s going to be interesting to see how this goes because I feel quite energized and I feel really energetically juiced up about this chat today. Our conversation today. I’ll introduce what our topic is today. So when I invited you onto this conversation, I really wanted to talk to you about some of the things that we’ve been chatting through between the two of us, about how we live and run our businesses and operate in this cyclical way. And you’ve been in business for how many years now?

 

[10:06] Claire Baker: About nine. Yeah.

 

[10:09] Charlotte Pointeaux: Okay. And I’ve been probably about three and a half, I reckon, as it is in this business. And I’ve really witnessed you in action for the last year or so, having come together in Cycle Coach 2020, your training. And I’ve really loved witnessing your creative process and the way that you operate and show up and structure your business around you and your cycle. And as a woman, what that means and looks like to you. So you’ve been a real inspiration to me, seeing you run your business, doing it fully on your own terms. And there’s a whole heap of things that I have learned and witnessed and observed in you and reflected on for myself as well, things that I’ve come to understand about the way that I have been running my business and the way that I really want to. And so you’ve been a beautiful role model for me in that sense. And so I really wanted to chat with you about some of these things that you like the beliefs or the frameworks or the way that you view and see your business and how you run that. So, as I say, we’ve chatted quite a lot about this between the two of us. And then very recently in Cycle Coach 2.0, the 2021 training, where I’ve been mentoring as well, you led a group call where we connected with the Enchantress archetype. And I was so struck during that call as we were talking about what it meant, what it looked like, what like some examples of how she might show up for us, that the Enchantress is a major vibe that we would want to call in as women in business. And so that really defined how I wanted to frame this conversation with you today. So we’re going to be talking about this sacred Enchantress archetype and we’re going to dive in deep. You ready?

 

[12:19] Claire Baker: I’m so ready to have this conversation.

[12:23] Charlotte Pointeaux: Yeah. Yeah. Awesome. Okay, so let’s just begin. If I can ask you in your words, who or what is the Enchantress? What does she mean to you?

 

[12:44] Claire Baker: For me, the Enchantress is one of several feminine archetypes that can show up in the different phases of the menstrual cycle, also in creative cycles and the female life cycle. And she’s of the dark. She is absolutely a dark, feminine archetype. And for me, she feels like I actually feel quite at home in that energy. And the older I get, the more I do like, it’s a mature energy and it’s a magical energy. Like, she feels very mystical to me. And she is a weaver. When I envision her, I see her, like, her hands moving, like she’s weaving. And she’s like incredibly, incredibly creative and really the gate, the protector, the guardian of my creativity. She’s of, like I said, the dark, the depth. There’s a richness to her. She’s incredibly sexual and in contrast to, say, like, the mother archetype or fertility archetypes, her sexuality isn’t about procreating. Her sexuality is just for her. It’s just for her pleasure. And that’s really very much connected to her creativity. She’s super boundary. She’s a bad bitch. She’s fucking ruthless when she needs to be, and so fierce. And I love her. Yeah, she can be distorted as cruel and misunderstood as being a bitch and nasty and that she is there to harm. I think there’s a lot of distortions around witches and our society’s beliefs, around what it means to be a witch. And there’s so much history there, of course, women, but actually it’s a very nourishing energy and it’s a sustaining energy to me. She really makes sure that I’m not over exerting myself or I’m not over giving, or that there’s not any kind of manipulation or even prostitution of myself going on. She calls the shots and keeps me in check with my integrity. Like, she’s really in her integrity.

 

[15:38] Charlotte Pointeaux: Thank you for describing that. I love everything that you’ve just explained there and I want to share that when you guided us through this meditation, this journey last week, I said that when I met my inner enchantress, she came out like, what did I say? She was a cross between the evil witch stepmother in Sleeping Beauty and then I also saw Medusa with the snake hair, but the energy that I got was like there’s this real fierceness, like, primal, kind of scary looking, but also I could sense this real tenderness beneath that. And like you said, she’s firm, she’s strong, she’s solid, she knows herself thrown through, but she’s so misunderstood. And I really get that sense. And the energy that I get from the enchantress is she’s so rooted into the Earth. She’s really rock solid in who she is and what she’s done for. And she’s like, yeah, really of the Earth to me, like, just that strength and that real relationship with the Earth and I guess the cycles as well. And you mentioned that she’s related to the cycles. And it’s worth pointing out that the connection here is the pre-menstrual phase and how that can some of those energies can be quite similar. And the phase of life of post-menopause when, like you say, fertility is not a thing anymore and all of that creativity and that energy, it’s like, okay, it’s you, it’s for your enjoyment and for you to channel in the way that you want to channel it.

 

[17:54] Claire Baker: Yeah, it’s not so much about other others. The energy is really now like calling back in. Like, if we think about the menstrual cycle and we’ve moved up through pre ovulation and ovulation, then that waxing energy now has reached its peak and it’s drawing back in. Like the focus is becoming back again in on self and same in the life cycle. Like, those years of fertility have come to an end and we’re no longer cycling hormonally, but now the focus is like, okay, now what about me again? And I think what’s so interesting is that it’s often a phase in a woman’s life that gets neglected and there isn’t a lot of attention. Sean on, there’s so much misunderstanding, isn’t there, around menopause? And again, that’s an entirely different conversation, but there’s a lot of mystery around how this energy shows up for women.

 

[18:52] Charlotte Pointeaux: Yeah, she’s like the wisdom keeper and so powerful. And that energy can be used for destruction and rebuilding in healthy or unhealthy ways, I guess depending on a lot to do with what your relationship is with aging and your body and your cycle and fertility, I guess, as well, all of these things. It’s like I feel like it all comes out in the wash at this point in your menstrual cycle and this phase of life. But I love that when we were talking before about this enchantress, you made the distinction, the comment that this is an energy that we can work with at any point in our life. At any point in time. And she’s particularly handy to call on in our business.

 

[19:47] Claire Baker: Oh, yeah.

 

[19:51] Charlotte Pointeaux: I really want to dive in specifically to how we can call the Enchantress in. Why we would like this is just an overview for now, but why we would want to do that and how we can use her powers for good, but for our good as much as anyone else is good. So let’s begin with that. Why would we want to call her into our business?

 

[20:23] Claire Baker: The professional realms that we swim in, these are the ones that I can really speak to, right? So just to give some context, like the coaching industry, female self employment, and also like, menstruality and the feminine realms of empowerment, like, these are the areas that I can speak to. And in these circles I see a lot of love and light, which is beautiful. And I, of course, am devoted to love and of course, like worst worship, like light, feminine blessings in business and in my personal life. But that’s only half of the story. And like I said earlier, the Enchantress holds these quite mature codes, like she’s grown up and that maturity brings a wholeness to our businesses and who we are as business owners and then therefore our offerings and how we’ve been able to serve our communities. That, again, the feeling is sustainable to me. It feels like it enables us to bring a sustainability, a refinement, authenticity, true creativity to our gifts and to what we’re able to share with others. If we’re constantly running on Yang energy or we’re constantly running on just love and light and we’re not actually exploring our shadows and confronting some of our own fears and some of our own wounds, and we’re bringing those because they’re going to be there anyway, whether we look at our dark stuff or not. Like we’re bringing it. So the Enchantress enables us to come into those wounded places within us and to address our own shadows so that we’re not bringing, particularly in coaching gosh, we’re not bringing those wounds into our work with clients and into how we’re showing up in the world. So it’s a gift for our own work to bring that maturity and that wholeness and that sustainability. It enables us to continue to do this work. We’re talking about being integrity as business owners. If we’re talking about having our shit together and showing up as professionals, not just as amateurs with an expensive hobby like actually going pro. She is all about really going pro and that’s taking care of our creativity, our energy, our finances. She is the guardian, like I said, of our sacred creativity and also the bringer of magic. I’ve had moments in my business and I’ll speak more about this, I’m sure. I’m just bored and I’m a bit over the lake, mundane, and I feel like I’ve lost my voice a little and I sound like everybody else or I just don’t feel inspired. I don’t know what to say or what to share. The enchantress’s power is through her voice and that’s how we are able to also activate her is through our voice. She is what helps us to have that authentic voice in these realms and to really speak our truth and to show up as we are. Like, why go into business to be a cookie cutter, a replica and of somebody else? I do not want to create a business and to create offerings that I should be creating or that I see somebody else creating. I want my business to always feel like it was an expression of my soul. And that might sound idealistic, but it’s true. Like the way that I show up in my business is needs to be, you know, that sacred creativity and the enchantress really allows that to come through. And that fierceness, that protectiveness, her ability to set boundaries, her respect and trust for herself and also for others, like for other sisters and other peers. Like, this is an energy, it’s a quality and a frequency that I believe that these the professional realms that I’ve already identified, that we swim in, I think it’s lacking and it’s an energy that is incredibly important.

 

[24:44] Charlotte Pointeaux: Yeah. Thank you. There’s so much in there and what it makes me think of is.

 

[24:55] Charlotte Pointeaux: Just want to pull out. One thing that you said that made me really kind of sit up and take notice was when you talked about like, going pro in your business as well and like not just kind of playing at it a little bit. And I think for people who are starting out in their business, this might speak more to them, but that sense of not feeling ready or able or worthy to just go all in and stop making the excuses, and she’s the energy that helps you to just dive in there and find your voice and bring that to life. But I see from what you just shared there, I can think of examples in times when I’ve felt I’ve felt that energy in myself and in others and then absolutely on the flip side, where I felt that healthy feminine or the mature feminine, like you say, is really present and in an unregulated industry. And I think where not all coaches, this is obviously reflective of the people who I connect with, but I connect with female coaches and female entrepreneurs and not men. Obviously there’s lots of male coaches, but when we have so many women as single business owners as well, this can really bring up sister wounding how we felt accepted or rejected or seen and felt and welcomed right back through our lives when making friends with other girls, with women growing up. And this can be like our power, it comes from within. But when you’re in a coaching business or a solo entrepreneur and it’s really very much about bringing your gifts out into the world. We can be so powerful together or we can just really perpetuate this wounded feminine maiden energy. We can tear each other down. We can be really harmful. But we have such an opportunity to embody that enchantress, to kind of heal that sister wound and to raise each other up and to bring in feminist business practices as well. I’d love to ask.

 

[27:44] Charlotte Pointeaux: In your years of business, can you give some examples of some of the lessons that you’ve learned about for yourself? Like through experiences you’ve had, things that you’ve witnessed where you’ve noticed this divide, like this opposite between the immature or the mature energies? And how about how that’s played out for you?

 

[28:12] Claire Baker: Yes, I think it’s really it’s an interesting point to make there about the way that, of course, these archetypes just stand alone, they interact with each other, and the enchantress provides such beautiful protection for the maiden. And there’s like a lot of work that many of us need to do around healing our sweet, innocent, tender maiden. Like, you didn’t mention the sister wound. That’s just such a massive one that so many of us carry. Feeling safe with other women noticing when feelings of competition come up. It’s definitely been a journey for me to really let other women in and to collaborate, I think, for a long time. And I still hold this identity in some ways. Like, I really identified as a lone wolf in business. Like, I didn’t have a big like, posse of entrepreneurial girlfriends. It’s actually only I had a couple of good ones. But it’s only been actually quite recently that I’ve let other women and female business owners into the word secrets in my head, like the secrets of my business. And they’re really in to collaborate with, to help, to be helped by. And there’s Charlotte as a mentor in my training, bringing mentors in to support the vision that I have because I can’t do it by myself. And coming to that realization, I genuinely can’t do this alone. This vision is so big, I need to be able to share it. So that’s been a journey for me.

 

There was a moment a number of years ago where I recognize that the calling that I share, the calling that I have, which is essentially, I feel, to restore harmony around masculine and feminine energies on this planet. That’s how I see my work in menstrual cycle awareness, is to bring some equilibrium back to this planet. I realize that that’s not a unique calling. It’s not like it’s just like Claire Baker. This is your calling. You are the only one who can do it. No one else can do it. You’re so special. There’s a kind of specialness that’s part of the wounded maiden to me is that kind of specialness to actually recognize. Like, I share this with so many other women with such a relief. My ego had been telling me that I was the only one who could do this. Which sounds ridiculous, but that’s the narrative I held and I had to keep this to myself and blah, blah, blah. So actually beginning to share my work, creating a facilitated training around everything I had learned over the years prior, and then bringing mentors in, having graduates coming through, that’s been really healing for me. And for sure my enchantress has been on that journey with me. Definitely. I think for me, one of the most important pieces of this puzzle has been to be in the field of other facilitators who hold that Enchantress frequency. I think that’s really important to mention. Again, when I first started coaching, I was surrounded by a lot of other really young coaches and people who were probably a similar age to me as well. And it’s not all about age, but there was quite a lot of youth, which is its own beautiful frequency, like that beautiful optimism and innocence and like just unbridled enthusiasm. That is so gorgeous. But it doesn’t hold those keys of discernment that the enchantress holds.

 

And as I’ve gone on my path, choosing to actually learn from mentors who are not only older than me, but also in their enchantress years of their life, and who have also moved through cycles and cycles, creative cycles, so that they really hold that energy of discernment and refinement and are really boundaried. Being able to feel into their frequency and to appreciate it and respect it, that’s been so helpful for me. So I think that’s been another important part of the story too that I would mention is who are you spending your time with professionally? Who are you learning from? Who are you choosing to be in their field by? Because sometimes those energies can be really intimidating and it can be easy to shy away from them because they might seem a bit standoffish or a bit like mean. Or we might create this story around what kind of person they are because we can sense that they’re incredibly boundaries and they might not let you in in the same way that somebody who is more immature with their boundaries might, right? And so they might be really clear in their energy field tuning in. Some of the most incredible teachers I’ve had are ones who I’ve kind of been a bit like oh whoa, initially, but actually learning from them, I can feel the love and the nourishment and the kindness and the compassion and I can see how their boundaries sustain that for them. And so learning from that has been awesome. I’ll give an example just to illustrate this point. A mentorship I was on years ago, one of the mentors, she was so boundaried around her time, like when she was teaching, she was like when I’m with you and I’m teaching, I’m here and I’m 100% with you in the room, like ask me anything, I’m all yours. But if you see me out on a walk in the morning or in the evening by myself, it was a residential. Do not come and talk to me if I’m off on my morning or evening walk processing and being with myself, please don’t come and speak to me. Like, that’s my time. It’s not yours. And it inspired me so much. And so we can learn so much from having these boundaries, being around women who embody that frequency. It’s been huge for me, actually.

 

[34:35] Charlotte Pointeaux: Yeah, I really relate to that as well. I found that when I started off in business, I was very much like wanting to give, wanting to feeling like I had to undercharge a little bit and over deliver and be available all the time. Even just setting up my calendar, for example, well, people might need me then, and they might need me then, and so I better make myself available. And now I’m at a point where I’m much more like, I’m only available for these teeny tiny windows of time. And I don’t want a million clients. I want this fewer and to really give of my energy in that. And that feels really, you know, you mentioned the word sustainable. That’s like, you know, that’s one of the foundation points for me about this, is that we’re not, like you said about the maiden, like, being like the people pleaser, and over so high in energy and optimism and joy and possibility. And then for me, I think of like the mother as energy of giving, giving, giving. And again, still not having those boundaries are not really pulled in. And the encounter is the one where it’s like, wait, that shit is not cool anymore. I can’t do that. I can’t keep that up and pulling it in and being okay with that not being well received by everybody. Yes.

 

[36:16] Claire Baker: Oh, yeah. Because you won’t. Yeah.

 

[36:20] Charlotte Pointeaux: You simply can’t please everyone, right? No, you please yourself first.

 

[36:24] Claire Baker: Yeah. I learned a long time ago that no one else was going to set your boundaries for you. Not your clients, not your partner, not your community. If you have a calendar, if you have a coaching calendar that you are available five to six days a week from like 09:00 A.m. Till 09:00 P.m., then guess what? You’re going to be working, seeing clients five to six days a week scattered throughout 09:00 A.m. Till 09:00 P.m.. So it’s a great example to give. These are the times that I want to be available because maybe for some people, they can sustain that capacity of working with one on clients one on one. I certainly cannot. And I know that if I try to do that, I will end up resenting the people I’m working with and I’ll end up resenting the work and feel burnt out by it. And that’s when the victim can come in, because then it’s like I’m burnt out or I’ve been getting so much. And it doesn’t feel good. And the enchantress is like no victim here. You decided that those are the hours you’re going to work. So let’s tone it in and let’s figure out what’s actually going to work for you so that you can make money and do good work when it works for you, because that’s possible.

 

[37:45] Charlotte Pointeaux: Yeah, absolutely. And I think the more that we can step into that and let go of this need to be everything to everybody all the time and instead remember that this has to work for us first and foremost and at this time of our life, this phase of life that we’re in. We are. I call it like the mother archetype energy. It’s not about having children. It’s that energy of being creative and having loads and loads of ideas, wanting to do all the things. And for me, I’m like, oh, I could do this, and I could do that. Then there’s still a lot of possibility, and I really have to call on that energy of, well, what feels good, what feels right. It’s not about what? I also remember when I started my business, there was a lot of create things that people want. And of course, you want to create things that people want. Otherwise there’s no market. But I think it’s really interesting to pose the question or the suggestion that it’s about what lights you up as much as what people want of you.

 

[39:06] Claire Baker: Yes.

 

[39:07] Charlotte Pointeaux: What do you say to that? Like how informed your creative process.

 

[39:11] Claire Baker: Yeah, absolutely. There is a sweet spot. It doesn’t have to be either. Raw. Of course it’s smart business practices to create solutions to people’s problems and to serve your community and their needs. But if it’s at the expense of your own joy again, why go into business for yourself? Just to be bored or tired by your work? It’s just So important To Me to Maintain that gosh, just that engagement. Like I just want to feel engaged by the work that I’m doing. And the enchantress really helped. She stepped in for me last year after I had my first book published, which was really exciting and something I’ve been working on for years and years, and I’m so pleased with it. And it was such a wonderful process. But it was quite a different process to how I’ve created before. And I’d been used to for a number of years, creating for my direct community. And they knew my voice and I was confident and comfortable speaking the language that we had been creating together for all of these years. When it came to publishing a book that was for the masses and for a community that was beyond mine. It did mean that there were some changes that I needed to make in the way that I was sharing and communicating. And the book also reached a much younger audience and I have had experience working with so I had quite a lot of stories come in around what I was allowed to talk about after the book came out and what was appropriate and what was no longer appropriate. I started to believe that I wasn’t allowed to talk about blood magic or sex or swear or you talk about some of the darker topics that I’ve always felt really confident sharing, very comfortable sharing with my community on, because there was a whole new audience that I was just not familiar with. And that was a really interesting process because I genuinely lost my voice, probably for the first time in the whole time that I’ve been working for myself. And it was hard. I really had to find that magic again. And for me, that involved talking with trust again. That sister wound like bringing in a couple of trusted girlfriends so I could share what I was feeling. It meant taking some time away from sharing it all because I’m just not interested in faking it. Like, I don’t want to pretend that I have something to say when I don’t. It just feels so yucky, you know what I mean? Like trying to post on Instagram when you’re like, I don’t know what to say. So you say something and you just feel like, oh, gross, what was that? So weird.

 

[42:19] Charlotte Pointeaux: I’ve been in that for the last two or three weeks. Just like not feeling like posting and so just not and going, this is cool, it’s fine, it’ll all work out in the end. Instead of just posting what you say crap, just for the sake of the algorithms.

 

[42:34] Claire Baker: Oh, god. Totally. And it’s just like so for me, it just erodes my energy so much. Like so much it took a break. I set up a beautiful ritual, actually, with the book, sat down with the book, created a ritual where I like, yeah, I just shared how I’d been feeling about it and how much I loved it and everything that had come from. But there also had been some shadows that had come up around it, like with this huge expansion of releasing this book that was naturally a contraction. And what’s so beautiful about the enchantress is that she’s so comfortable with death and transformation and there’s really the energy to call on when you need to let go of something and you really need something to die. Like, I needed these beliefs to die. They just weren’t not serving me. And I don’t even know if they were true, but they just weren’t serving me at all. And I remember I’m just going to write a post about how sometimes I anoint myself with cervical fluid and I fucking love sex and I want to talk about magic again and like, just I’m not and being really clear about who I wasn’t as well. I think there had begun to be a bit of a misunderstanding around some of the new people who were following my work around. What I do and I was getting a lot of questions, for example, around hormonal imbalances or issues that really needed to go to a GP. Yeah, that’s not my jam, that’s not my field of genius at all or beyond the parameters of my qualifications. Like this is who I am and this is what I talk about and just beginning to find my voice again and just beginning to share it.

 

That was a really powerful experience with my enchantments last year. She also as I’m just talking, I’m just feeling her come in again around just any time. There’s been transformation and death in my business. Getting really comfortable as business owners with the cycles of your business and knowing when it’s just time to let something go, whether that’s branding or copy or some old photos or an offering or an idea that you’ve held about yourself. Like whenever I’ve had that transformation, she’s really been there by my side and has just helped me to let some things die off so that we can move through the new cycle and that beautiful, sweet rebirth can be happen. And then we can come in with the maiden with all the hopes and the visions and the possibility. But if we don’t let shit die, then we’re never going to get that feeling of inspiration again. So often she shows up when there is like frustration and boredom and we’re a lot of like mundane, even exhaustion. Like when I’m feeling exhausted with my business, I’m like, okay, what needs to die? Something is not right.

 

[45:33] Charlotte Pointeaux: Yeah, totally. I’ve had that the last few months there’s been this feeling and it would come up every it was always the same time of my cycle as well. When I did reach the pre menstrual phase and also the menstrual phase, I like that back half slowing down, waning energy. I would start to feel like there was something that I was doing where I was like, oh I’ve got to do that, I’ve got to do that. And the moment it became like I’ve got to do this, I was like, this just doesn’t feel good anymore. And it took me quite a few cycles to be really sure that I wanted to say cycles, I guess.

 

[46:15] Charlotte Pointeaux: I mean. Maybe a few months, four months maybe something like that, of really reflecting on where was this coming from? Was this coming from the wounded and fear kind of place? Or was it the enchanters going this isn’t serving you, you can do better. This doesn’t feel good. And if it doesn’t feel good to. You then is it working for the people you’re serving to? And like you say, slashing, burning you’re creating space, putting the nutrients and the energy back into the soil to fertilize and compost for what might fill its place when it’s the right time. Not rushing in to go right, we’re going to do this now just because I can like just really sitting and being slow and, like, I love that. I really love to carry the energy of the whole cycle through business and each moon cycle or menstrual cycle, just looking at what’s working and what’s not and being really choosy about which idea I’m going to carry through. What offering? I’m going to put my energy into and letting everything else just sit in the pot and stew and bubble away until it’s the right time. But then also using that waning energy to really critically question like, is this what I want to be doing with my life? Does it feel good to me? Even if other people are going, yeah, it’s great. And I think there’s so much power in that and it’s quite rebellious, it feels like, to think about and put your focus onto what feels true for you. But I like to say, just because you can doesn’t mean you should. And I think that’s the Enchantress  speaking.

 

[48:23] Claire Baker: Yeah, just because you can doesn’t mean you should. And, like, the mother absolutely can. She’s just like, I can do everything. Absolutely. Which is, again, where our Enchantress is just such a sacred protector of the other archetypes as well. She’s like, I can see that you can, babes, and you absolutely nail it. But, like, at what cost? There’s a trade off with everything. So does it add up? Does it add up? I would never say I’ve burnt out, but I have had some issues with my thyroid over in the last few years and I had to really be honest with myself about how much I was working. And not only in terms of hours. But again, what I was working on that actually wasn’t giving me energy and fuelling me and where I was just feeling exhausted and drained in my business and creativity. My zoom just wasn’t really made. Tried to cancel. No, it’s okay.

 

[49:47] Charlotte Pointeaux: I can still see you fine.

 

[49:51] Claire Baker: I actually stopped seeing one on one clients maybe 18 months ago now, and I’d had this sort of, like, knocking at my door. My Enchantress was like, it’s going to be time soon. It’s going to be time to take a break and to have a sabbatical from coaching an extended one. And it felt so terrifying to me because that’s what my business was. My coaching had always been the bread and butter. It was very much tied in with my identity as a business owner and as a coach. And I love the work, I love one on one work. And of course, financially, it was a huge risk to just suddenly stop seeing clients, but, yeah, this isn’t working for you anymore. You need to take a break. There’s something else. And her ability to trust in the unknown. Because she totally swims in the depths of the unknown. She’s like the queen of the dark. She’s so happy in the underworld that she’s the ability to trust in the unknown. As a business owner, you have to be able to do that. A lot of people ask me, how do you work for yourself? How do you stay motivated, how do you survive, how do you not go crazy without a regular pay check? And it is a certain quality that you do have to have, I think you have to be able to trust in, trust in the unknown. You can forecast all you like, but there are still massive uncertainty with any job, but it’s more obvious and it’s based all the time. You really have to be able to trust yourself and your own resilience and your own creativity and your own inventiveness and also trust that you’ll be supported. And again, that’s what that energy is just all about. Like, if the first half of the master cycle is about agency and getting things going and moving and taking action and we are in charge, then that second half is like, okay, I’m going to let go and just like, okay, I just have to trust the universe and trust in the collaborative forces around us that will be held.

 

[52:23] Charlotte Pointeaux: I really feel that.

 

[52:25] Claire Baker: Yeah.

 

[52:25] Charlotte Pointeaux: And I think you’ve just articulated.

 

[52:28] Claire Baker: What.

 

[52:29] Charlotte Pointeaux: I feel and sense every time I come to that part of my cycle or that cycle in business as well. Like, that letting go and just really trusting that all is going to be well and that like you say, I have within me what I need.

 

[52:47] Charlotte Pointeaux: Clients will come, the work will come. The money will come, the inspiration will come, the support is there and all is happening in its own timing. And it’s such a practice to honour that part of the cycle, all the cycles, this part that we’re just like so uncomfortable with collectively and there’s so much power in that. That’s how many the most successful businesses, I reckon, why they are so successful. It’s that ability and capacity to sit with the unknowns and the cycles of creation and being able to evolve and adapt and grow and follow what feels aligned to your purpose or your vision or whatever, rather than clinging on for dear life to what you know just because it has worked in the past.

 

[53:48] Claire Baker: Oh, yeah, that’s a good one. Just because something’s worked for you in the past definitely does not mean that it’s going to continue to. And that can be so hard to come to terms with.

 

[53:58] Charlotte Pointeaux: Yeah, absolutely.

 

[54:00] Claire Baker: Like, no good. How did I figure it out? Yeah.

 

[54:07] Charlotte Pointeaux: And yet I just love that. I love playing in that energy of like, how could this be different? How could this be better? Is there something I’ve not considered? Because I think when you’re the only person in your business, you might have a VA or assistant or whatever. But if you’re the only person in the CEO mindset, like CEO role of visioning and strategizing and planning and doing, then you can get so stuck down your lane that down your tunnel of the realm of what is possible that you can’t see what actually somebody else might see or might be possible. And I think just stopping, as painful as it can be, that’s when you get those strikes of gold and you’re like, oh, my God, I never even considered that. Yes, and you can feel the difference.

 

[55:11] Claire Baker: Yeah, it’s true. And I think the more for me anyway, the more I’ve been through those moments of things collapsing or not working out or I’ve just really realized something needs to go. Like, I need to burn something down. And on the other side, it’s like this incredible gift and reward. The more times you go through that process, then the more you can trust it and you can start to feel like that excitement that you mentioned, like, oh, okay, something’s happening, something is not working, which means something is definitely working.

 

[55:50] Charlotte Pointeaux: Yes, absolutely. I love that. I love talking about this. I want to ask you, Claire, moving on to like, something, I guess a little bit more uncomfortable, possibly following the vein of the Enchantress. I really want to talk about what it’s like for you being such a I feel like this is probably not the right word, but you’re such a leader in the field of menstruality, and you’re like one of the fore-mothers if you like. Even though you’ve got your lineage of teachers and you’ve started Cycle Coach as Cycle Coach school now and your training facilitators to do what you do loosely but in their own unique bringing their own unique brand of magic into that as well, whatever that might look like. And I feel like in the grand scheme of things like teeny tiny section of coaching and menstruality as a field, it’s so new and so emerging. And that there are a few examples of people like you who are doing this as their business and who are coaching or leading or really pioneering this field of, like I say, menstruality or psycho awareness or whatever people might call it. And I think, as we’re all trying to, for people who are interested in working in this area, I think, like I say, there’s not that many examples of people who’ve been doing this for a while. And I think it can be really tempting. One of the things you talked about before, about the difference between the enchantress and some of the immature energies is you talked about sacred creativity, boundaries and having, like, that authentic voice and finding your voice. And so I think it can be quite challenging for people to work out what their way of doing things is, what their way of teaching or coaching or guiding other women through connecting with their cycles is. And this is true for other fields as well. Not just this field, of course, but I think it’s so important that we can respect the things that we have learned and the things that we have taught, been taught and then try to create our own way of being in the world. And I would love to hear a bit about your story, how you found your authentic voice in this field to start with and any advice for somebody who is starting off and finds himself going, oh, I really like what they’re doing, I might go and do that, but I really like that too. It’s that difference between learning from other people and taking the teachings on board, but then versus bringing together the threads from all the different things that you’re learning to create your own offering and your own business and your own voice. Does that make sense? That was quite a long, rumbly way of getting there.

 

[59:41] Claire Baker: No, it was a great question. When I first started working for myself and started writing and blogging, like, blogging was really where it all began for me and that was before Instagram, I think maybe I had an Instagram account, but we didn’t back in 2012, back in the old days.

 

[01:00:06] Charlotte Pointeaux: I can’t remember if I had done that or not. That is like another lifetime ago.

 

[01:00:10] Claire Baker: I think it was back when Instagram was like you put those weird filters on. It was such a different app to what it is today. And so it was really all about blogging, which was I’m really glad that that’s actually where the genesis of my work began because I don’t feel like there were as many voices as there seems to be now. Because there’s just with social media, like, we’re just inundated so often back then, you’d get, like, a notice on a Friday of the blog post that had come out that week, and maybe there was, like, three or four that I’d read today. We probably see like 100 different posts at least on social media. So it’s a different way of interacting today. And I think it’s important to name that because it can feel as if everyone is talking about the thing that you’re talking about because you’re probably following a lot of other people who are doing work that you’re interested in and inspired by. And I’m very conscious of that to the point where I go through phases where I just will unfollow a bunch of people or mute them, or I won’t go on social media at all. Because I’m very aware of how easy it is to be not just inspired, but actually to begin to adapt, to adopt other people’s voices or ideas as your own, when that actually might not be true for you. Just so incredibly natural that that can happen.

 

And I’m very, very conscious of that when I’m creating. So back in the blogging days, it was kind of great because I feel like I really had an opportunity to hone my own voice and to talk about these things, to talk about my experience with my cycle, which is really where it all began. And to be able to name my experience and everything I was learning without if I was ever coming into contact with menstruality, it was through a book that I might one or two books. It wasn’t like there was this influx every day of other people’s ideas. So I’m always saying this to people when it comes to creativity, do not be afraid to shut down the voices outside. Don’t even read books. Don’t follow people. Don’t watch stuff, don’t listen to stuff. If you need to just really come back into your voice and what it sounds like and what you want to talk about, shut everyone else out. Do not go looking for inspiration elsewhere. And then when you actually start to feel the call to be inspired again, you will. And you’ll find really beautiful things that inspire you and that you’ll be able to call in again. But just to be mindful of the amount of noise. And I think what can happen is that when we don’t trust ourselves and we haven’t really worked on nurturing that voice and getting to know what we sound like, I can tell when what I’m writing about is mine or when I’m leaning on someone else’s ideas. I know you have that feeling you can start to tell and to be able to catch yourself in that creative moment when it’s like, no, this isn’t totally mine. That’s a really important skill to have, to be able to discern, like, this is my voice and this is how it sounds and this is when I’ve taken too much from other people. Referencing is really a really important thing to mention here. Yes, right. Like reference, reference other people. If you’ve learned something from somebody else, reference them. You mentioned earlier, Charlotte, how unregulated the industries that we work in are. And this is one of the biggest downfalls I see because of that is that there is a lot of taking of ideas. And I have had some incredible teachers in my life. Of course I share their ideas because I’ve learned from them, I’ve used them, I’ve embodied them, I’ve integrated them. But reference and helped to by acknowledging that lineage of the work. This is something that one of my teachers, Alexandra Pope, really helped me to understand was like the importance of solidifying that lineage of this work because it is so new. menstruality, of course it’s an ancient, but it’s also very new in the sense that our consciousness is just coming around to this idea of honoring Menstrual cycles and cycles in general. We’ve kind of lost touch with that wisdom for the last couple of thousand years. So now we’re coming back around to it. Like we have to honour the sacred lineage of this work. It works for us. It’s better for me and for my work to reference where the teachers that I’ve learned from, it strengthens the integrity of it. It solidifies it, it gives it a credibility. But the wounded maiden who again that ego that comes in that wants to be special or that wants to be like, I’m the only one. As soon as we adopt that mindset, then it’s hard to acknowledge that we have learned from others. There’s really, again, that maturity and that humbleness to be able to say, like, these are the powerful women that I have learned from, like, that serves the work in such, like, the ripple effect of that is just huge. Rather than pretending that we made it all up, you know, like, yes, and.

 

[01:05:37] Charlotte Pointeaux: We can’t possibly claim to have made it all up. Like, that’s just foolish to even think that we could do that. But I do. I see that, and I feel that, like, this sense of one, like you said about, like, I always refer to it as, like, the coaching bubble, like, that sense of being on Instagram where you see, like, so many people and you feel like everyone’s talking about what you’re talking about, so why? Why bother? Because everyone else is doing it. It’s like, you’re in this bubble, but nobody else is. So removing yourself from that. But I just wanted to say, I see within that bubble the same kinds of posts popping up all the time, and that’s fine if people are sharing authentically their own experience. It’s when you get into that habit of they’re talking about that, so I’ve got to talk about that, or, oh look, I don’t want to forget that or picking out that difference, but I really want to just touch on. I just wrote down, as you were talking, the difference between pinching theory versus embodied wisdom. You were talking about how you have integrated and embodied the learnings that you have taken from your teachers. And you’re sharing that you’re referencing it. But also the other thing is that you’ve embodied it. It’s part of your practice. It’s part of who you are, how you live. It’s not just this thing that you learn that you’re just regurgitating offhand quickly to make it look like you know.

 

What you’re talking about there’s a real difference between embodying it and learning it for yourself and feeling it and feeling the difference and then sharing from that place rather than just jumping on the bandwagon.

 

[01:07:30] Claire Baker: Yes. There’s so much information and teachings that I have learned from different mentors and teachers and books over the years that I don’t share because it’s not mine to share. It’s not something that I have experienced or embodied yet, and so it’s not mine to share regurgitating information. I mean, ultimately, I feel like it’s what my entire university degree taught me to do, is basically just like it’s kind of the old paradigm of education and learning, isn’t it?

 

[01:08:06] Charlotte Pointeaux: Totally.

 

[01:08:06] Claire Baker: That’s what we were taught to do was to memorize information and regurgitate it. There was very little of course, there was some critical thinking, but there was no embodiment of it, like, actually going out and embodying these ideas into your life, into your body, into your work and then coming back with a whole new evolution of their work. This is why in Cycle Coach this is why the facilitator training is not just a professional training of here’s a bunch of presentations you can give to people and here’s the how to like it was really important to me that that was also very much of a personal journey with menstruality and that course takes every facilitator deep into their own menstruality. And I feel like I repeat myself constantly in that training. But I mean this do not share something unless you’ve tried it yourself and experienced it and embodied it. Don’t just repeat what you’ve read fine without really coming into some kind of communion with it first. Again, it feels sustainable to me just speaking about the difference between these different ways of teaching and learning. When I think about just regurgitating ideas, it feels like I’m kind of holding my breath in. It feels like very up with energy and it feels like kind of burnout energy but when we move a little slower because actually it will be more slow. That way of teaching and building a business and sharing and being a leader because you have to go through your own processes. So it’s going to take more time, isn’t it?

 

[01:09:54] Charlotte Pointeaux: Oh, yeah.

 

[01:09:55] Claire Baker: But if you don’t have the mentality that you need to hustle or that there’s a huge rush to get to some kind of invisible finish line, if we can actually take the perspective that there’s heaps of time like there’s plenty and there’s all the years. Like, we’ve got loads of time. Then we can actually honour these ideas and play with them sometimes for years before we even start talking about them. This is so much in my personal practice that I don’t talk about publicly or share online yet. It’s not time, like it’s not ripe yet. So honouring the cycles of these teachings in your own life before then like rebirthing them in the world, that feels so good.

 

[01:10:36] Charlotte Pointeaux: I love that. I was journaling last night so I tried yoni steaming. I’ve done it before, but it was the first time I did it at home and I created this beautiful ritual and it was New Moon. And I was journaling afterwards and I picked tarot cards for each week of the moon cycle. And my first card for like now, because it’s New Moon, the card was and I can’t remember what the card was, it was basically talking about this difference between there being opportunities, there being like a ripe time to bring forth creation, but also doing it in a way that feels sustainable and that feels good and slow and steady. And as I was journaling on it, I wrote out that I love my work so much, I am just at the start. I could be doing this for 40 years and I’d be in. My mid seventy s. And it was just like everything I’m doing is like an investment in this whole body, this legacy of work. And every time I feel like I just want to do it now, it’s like, oh my gosh, hold on, there’s time and there’s a place and things need to settle and brew and simmer and be infused with the learnings and the embodied learnings that you have like we’re talking about. And I just thought that is just so feminist as a business practice or way the patriarchal capitalist system which is all about hustle and pushing and doing as much as you absolutely can right now, all the time. That’s also the system that wants us to pinch ideas because that’s what patriarchy has done. It’s mind taken, colonized, claimed everything for itself and it’s that kind of energy and I feel like sticking two fingers up going fuck you. I’m not going to do that to the collective like the sisterhood to peers, to myself as well. I’m not going to degrade my work by saying like, pinching things that aren’t mine. You and I had this conversation recently, this really honest conversation between the two of us where we were talking about in Cycle Coach you share some handouts, for example, like cycle charting handouts and everything. And I was thinking like how I had recreated a version of the cycle chart and I was really thinking about how much of it was yours, how much of it was mine, where did it come from? Did it feel good to me to share something or was it better for me to really sit with what my own process is and then create something that sure can be inspired by you and your teachings, but isn’t just my version of what you’ve done? And I think that the more we can talk about these things, the more we can let you say, like, collaborate. We can heal the feminine and the way that we’ve been stolen from and mined for so long and we can really reclaim trust in each other, but in the same process, finding our own voice in our own way. And I really appreciated that we could have that conversation and it’d be a healthy conversation and not a wounded, like, ego or she said this and she said that, or it wasn’t like how it could easily have gone in between two different people.

 

[01:15:10] Claire Baker: Oh gosh. And I have had those types of conversations like where it has been very reactive and coming from a wounded place, I really appreciated that we were able to have that conversation as well. Like Enchantress Energy is definitely about having adult conversations and as wisdom keepers of this work and it’s like devotees to again, like restoring the equilibrium between feminine and masculine energies on the planet. I really appreciate that we can do that because that serves the work. And I’ve had a couple of experiences in my what’s interesting about the example you just gave Charlotte is that we both came to that conversation with so much integrity. And something I’ve noticed in myself in the past and I definitely see this in a lot of freshies, like fresh business owners and coaches is a real lack of boundaries around intellectual property and sacred creativity. And so the conversation between us could have gone a couple of ways. Like, you could have come to me with that question around, how can I use this? What are the parameters? And I could have said, no, you can’t use any of that. It’s all mine. Sharing it, absolutely. This is mine. I’m not sharing it. And that’s, I guess, the shadow of the enchantress. If it’s out of balance, it’s just shutting everyone out. This is mine, don’t come near it. I’m not sharing this with the world. So therefore, I’m never going to birth anything because I’m terrified it’s going to be misinterpreted or appropriated or whatever. Right?

 

[01:17:10] Charlotte Pointeaux: Yeah.

 

[01:17:10] Claire Baker: So that could have been one way, or I could have been like, oh, just do whatever you want, babe, go for it. The more the merrier. Just use it exactly as it is. Don’t even credit me, just go for it. More women need to get this, the better. Like, even if it’s at the cost of my own sacred creativity and IP like, and then slip into that master dumb of like, oh, I don’t that’s not important, don’t worry about that. You just do whatever you want. And neither of those would have served either of us for the work. So it does require the ability to be really in your own truth and really clear in that channel to say, yeah, let’s have a conversation around how things do need to be referenced and the parameters around how things can be evolved and changed and what that would look like. And I’ve had to have a few conversations like this in the nine years of being in business, and I’m sure I’ll have many more as the time goes on. And sometimes I, you know, I can look back on it. A few of them that I haven’t handled so as gracefully as the conversation that we had. Absolutely. I have definitely had a few that haven’t gone as well. I had quite a significant encounter with this with this topic around sacred creativity and honouring lineage this year, when there’s been a few few times over the years when I can tell that someone has maybe just borrowed my tone slightly or they’ve maybe looked at my coaching packages and they’ve adopted the framework for themselves and whatever. All good. There are some things that I’m like, that’s fine, you’ve made it your own. But I had quite a full on experience this year where I had a few people direct me towards the website of another coach, a menstrual cycle coach, who had essentially adopted my tone, my words sometimes verbatim, from my website, from my about page from my work with me page from some of my offerings. And that was like even just recalling, like, that moment, honestly, my heart broke. I just felt like so much heartbreak and it was such a strange experience to see on this website. I could remember writing that sentence. I could remember the time that it had taken me to come up with that colour choice or which way that photo was going to go. Like, it had been so much had been lifted and it was a really confronting experience and it was definitely one that I had to call my enchantress on board for because there was there was absolutely that voice in my head that was like, well, they’ve changed enough. And and from a legal standpoint, maybe, you know, it’s like ten per cent. You have to change something in order for copyright to not be valid anymore. It’s actually not a lot.

 

[01:20:37] Charlotte Pointeaux: Wow.

 

[01:20:39] Claire Baker: Yeah, like, ethically, absolutely not cool. But from a legal perspective, there probably actually wasn’t a great deal that I could have done. It’s really minimal, which is just gross. But that’s how it is.

 

[01:20:52] Charlotte Pointeaux: That’s representative of the whole attitude.

 

[01:20:54] Claire Baker: Right? Exactly. Yeah, exactly. Totally. And you see it you see it in fashion, you see it in music. It’s rampant. It’s rampant, this borrowing, borrowing, stealing of ideas and turning them off as your own. So it’s totally that voice, that part of me that was like, oh, yeah, I could just leave it like, she’s obviously doing great work and I don’t want to rain on her parade. I don’t want to have a difficult conversation. I don’t want to have to put the energy into this that it’s going to require. And it really did require a lot of energy, but yeah, I had to take it. And it took me time to go through and to identify every sentence, every colour, every part of my work that had been that had been taken, and to confront this person with it and to say, this is really not cool. And I was able to have some thankfully, I did get some really great legal advice at the time, and I was able to have this discussion with this person and get them to change things. But that was hard. I found that really hard, but I had to do it because this was my time and my energy and my work and my intellectual property and my secret creativity. And my enchantress was just like, oh, hell no. Hell no. Do not fuck with me. I just had that mantra on repeat, was like, do not fuck with me. I can be so generous with my work. I really want to give as much stuff for free as possible. I want you to be able to come into my sphere as a business owner, and you can learn how to chart your cycle. You can learn about the different phases of the cycle. You can take all of this away, and you don’t have to give me a cent. I genuinely always want my space to feel generous. I don’t want to be gatekeeping this information that’s really important to me. But that does not mean that you have the right to come into my space and take my stuff and try to palm it off as your own.

 

[01:23:18] Charlotte Pointeaux: Especially when it’s an offering that’s making them a lot of money. That’s not the point, but it’s an additional layer to it, right? Of course we can buy into the whole thing of like we’ve been saying, borrowing is such a euphemism, like outright stealing of ideas and copy and branding and all of that and then selling it on. It’s just buying into this old paradigm, and we can do so much better. We don’t need to do that to each other. I think it’s so important that we get really honest with ourselves. Like that time I did with you, and it wasn’t even stealing it. It was just like, where’s the credit? And how does this work? But having that capacity to be really honest with yourself and be like, I’m a big girl here. I can put my big girl pounds on, and I can take it to make the right choice. And we get to be collaborators and peers and partners, and we can work together and create an even greater change when we can hold each other with that respect rather than doing the whole divide and conquer thing.

 

[01:24:51] Claire Baker: And when this person made the changes that I had requested and I went back to have a look, I could feel them in what they had then written and the images that they were then using. We do ourselves a huge disservice to try to borrow someone else’s voice and identity. It’s like, that’s not yours. I can’t feel you in that. I can feel me. I can see you’ve taken some of my voice, but where are you? And I could genuinely feel them. And I’m like, okay, there you are. Now I can see you. And now their community will be able to see and feel them too. I 100% believe that it’s also doing their work as service too, to say, like, hey, babe, see what’s going on here? But it’s not cool. Like, this isn’t how we do business anymore.

 

[01:25:51] Charlotte Pointeaux: And I love that point so much. I don’t know what the quote is or where, but I’ve got this thing in my head that’s, like, people come to you because of you, like, your energy. They want to work with you, and they want to be in your in your space, and people need to be able to see you and feel you. And that requires putting yourself out there and communicating and expressing that so that people can be drawn to you. Otherwise, why would they work with what’s different about you? You’ve got to own it. That’s what the enchantress helps with, I reckon.

 

[01:26:26] Claire Baker: Yeah, that’s right. And this is again where we find our confidence is like, what if everybody’s talking about menstrual cycle awareness and feminine wisdom. Great. Who are you? It’s not about the information being regurgitated, it’s about the frequency that you hold. That’s what’s going to attract the right people to you. But that takes, like, commitment to being able to cultivate that frequency within yourself and to be able to stay true to it. That’s a real practice. But it serves your business, like tenfold. That’s what gives its nourishment. And we’ve said the word sustainable so many times in this conversation, but that’s what keeps it. But it sustains.

 

[01:27:14] Charlotte Pointeaux: It’s a buzzword. I mean, like, we know when you play like, bingo and you’re like, there it goes again. But it’s like such an important word and I think it’s one of those. It’s a real core value and principle of doing business in this new kind of modern, healthy, balanced way that’s not just about doing everything and being everything just because you can. Coming back to you. So, wow, what a conversation. Thank you so much, Claire. I just loved that so much and I loved just sharing this experience and this journey with you. And I’ve absolutely loved being involved with FICO coach school. And it’s about to wrap up next month or so, isn’t it, for this round? And then you’ll be opening up next year.

 

[01:28:14] Claire Baker: Well, yeah.

 

[01:28:15] Charlotte Pointeaux: Super exciting. So I’ll pop your details and the links if anybody wants to connect with you and find out more about cycle Coach school. But just the last, very last quick question I just want to ask you is if you could share one thing, like the truest thing, what has connecting with your body and your cycle taught you or revealed to you?

 

[01:28:48] Claire Baker: It always comes back to just, like, acceptance of how, like, the full spectrum of who I am. I spent a lot of time in my 20s trying to, like, as you do in those maiden years, trying to figure out who I was and feeling confused all of the time because I felt like I was just so I had so many different frequencies. I was like, good girl, and the perfectionist and the academic, but then also there’s a crazy party animal who loved to party and travel and then this really sexual side and this kind of magical side and then this really, like, we’re in a response anyway. So I feel like for me, menstruality is just like, with the understanding that I am all of those things and more and that it’s all welcome and getting to play in them every cycle, like all of the different sides of myself and just being really cool with that inconsistency and inverted commas or how the old paradigm would have defined inconsistency. Like, celebrating that actually is a superpower. My essence, who I am, just gives me, like, infinite yeah, just infinite gratitude for this work.

 

[01:30:05] Charlotte Pointeaux: I love that all of you, all of those parts of us are always present and welcoming. All of that inconsistency beautiful. Thank you so much, Claire.

 

[01:30:18] Claire Baker: Thanks so much. Charlotte, I really appreciate the holding to be able to have a conversation like this. It’s not one I could have with everybody like you really have bring so much grace and power to this work and I just love you. So thank you. Thank you.

 

[01:30:35] Charlotte Pointeaux: Love you too. And have a beautiful bleed when it comes.

 

[01:30:40] Claire Baker: Thank you. Thanks.

 

[01:30:43] Claire Baker: Hi, Wild Flow listeners, it’s Claire here. After I spoke with Charlotte and we had the conversation that you’ve just listened to, I felt really called to name the mentors I mentioned who I’ve had the honour of working with, those who embody these qualities of the enchantress that we’ve been discussing and whose frequencies I’ve benefited from receiving, particularly after we spoke so much about honouring the lineage of the teachings that we’ve received and referencing. I felt like this was an opportunity I had to share some of those teachers with you to give them credit. So firstly, Alexandra Pope, a co founder of Red School. Not only is Alexandra in the post menopausal rich Autumnal Enchantress phase of her life, but she is also what she would call a via negativa woman. So she’s very comfortable playing in the mystery and the uncertainty, the darkness that those enchantress realms. And I feel so blessed to have had three separate residentials with Alexandra leading and modelling so astonishingly like a true enchantress, discernment epic boundaries, truth speaking, and delivered with so much love.

 

[01:32:09] Claire Baker: Jane Hardwick Collings is another teacher whose powerful presence just in and of itself. Just being in jane’s energy activated something within me. She is the ultimate grandmother warrior queen who models this wise leadership, this ability to create community and to be in that leadership role that women in their post menopausal years do hold the keys for. Shaney Marie is a feminine mysteries teacher and guide who is absolutely not postmenopausal in fact, we’re exactly the same age. So we’re in the same phase of our lives, but gosh Shaney just holds these dark feminine codes. And her mentorship for me has been exceptionally transformative, particularly around sex and the body and relating. Lastly, Sharon Holmes. Sharon’s been a teacher of mine in the realms of inclusivity, particularly inclusive coaching. And this is something that, you know, inclusivity, I believe, is totally in the realms of the enchantress. We’re talking about embracing, welcoming, accepting all. And Sharon is a powerful teacher and she brings this like, no bullshit, fierceness to diversity, inclusion and equality, and a deep sensitivity, a real care to her work. And there’s nothing of limits with Sharon. She calls it how she sees it. In the spaces she holds are mindful and nurturing. So it’s this light and dark, this both and dynamic that I feel we’re often starved of in the coaching, well being and spiritual realms. So I heartily happily recommend these teachers and I feel really grateful to have learned directly from them and experienced their enchantress magic.

 

 

[01:34:14] Charlotte Pointeaux: Thank you so much for listening in. If you’re loving this podcast and you’d love to help me spread the wisdom shared, please leave a review or rating or share this with somebody who you think would love to listen in. I’m really passionate about creating ripples of change and getting this information to more women, girls, and people with the cycle. So that they can reclaim their cyclic natures too. And if you’d love to dive in deeper with learning more about how to connect with your cycle and Rites of Passages, come and join our free Wildflow Circle community. Or choose a course and learn with me on my online Learning Hub. All the links are in the show notes, and until next time, be well. And go with the flow of your cyclic nature.

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