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Cathy Lemire Money Mindset and the Menstrual Cycle on Wild Flow Podcast with Charlotte Pointeaux blog post

What does money have to do with the menstrual cycle? It’s surprising how much! This week’s guest Cathy Lemire, The Menstrual Money Coach, is here to help us connect the dots between how our menstrual cycle influences our relationship, behaviours and attitudes around money, understand how our money stories play up across the phases of our cycle, and to take charge of our wealth!

tune in to hear:

Tune in for a great episode where you’ll hear about:

  1. How Cathy become the Menstrual Money Coach, and what she did when she realised she was sabotaging her money and relationship in her inner autumn,
  2. The origins of money shame and taboo and how money and the menstrual cycle are both sources of power that we have been actively disconnected from,
  3. The temperamental nature of our money mindset across our cycle, and the main ways her clients get stuck with money,
  4. How our money stories are formed, 
  5. How to communicate our cyclical needs to partners – especially if they don’t have a menstrual cycle.

[00:00] Kathy: It’s one of the first questions I ask people when we first start talking, what was money like growing up for you? It’s so interesting how so often whatever they’re currently experiencing is some version of what they experienced as a child. So we bring those experiences into adulthood and then if we have a partner, they have their own experiences and sometimes they’re very similar experiences that weren’t very positive. So then you have two people trying to come together and we don’t really know how to talk about it, and there’s a level of shame that goes into that because you think, oh, well, I’m an adult, these are just things I should know how to do. Even though for so many of us, no one really sat us down and ever talked to us about it or how to do it. And it’s the same thing with our cycle. It was not something we talked about.

[01:02] Charlotte: Welcome to Wild Flow Podcast with me, Charlotte Pointeaux. I’m an internationally award winning menstrual cycle and embodiment coach cycle mysteries Guide and founder of the First Moon Circle School of Menstrual Education for Children. Tune in for deep, heartfelt conversations with wisdom keepers, embodied leaders and change makers on themes from cyclical living in flow with your menstrual cycle on bodies, wisdom reclaiming rites of passages to normalize period positivity for you and the next generation and exploring our embodied experiences, soulful transformations and intuitive wisdom guiding you to express and embody your full power in the change you want to see in the world. Are you ready? Let’s flow. Today you’re in for a treat.

 

I’m chatting with Kathy Lemire, who is a menstrual money coach, and I loved this conversation so much. Kathy is helping us to connect how our menstrual cycle influences our relationship and behaviours around money. So how we feel about money, how our money stories play up and how we therefore respond to the money that we have, or how our attitudes to money we don’t have come up. And I just haven’t thought about this very much at all personally. And I think that this is just such an incredible conversation that more and more of us need to be thinking about because the menstrual cycle and money are so related. And in this conversation, you’re going to hear much, much more about this. So Kathy Lamire is a financial coach for women who know their menstrual cycle is wreaking havoc on their life and are struggling to manage their energy. The ups and downs throughout their cycle make it feel impossible to set goals, let alone achieve them through years of coaching. She’s here to inspire you to connect with your body and connect with your money, all while making it feel sustainable.

Kathy teaches women to embrace their cycle as their superpower, so they can stop the monthly PMS fight over money with their spouse, the emotional spending splurge followed by regret and feelings of self sabotage. When she’s not coaching, you can find her cheering on her children from the sidelines or out in the woods on the trails with her husband and dogs. Kathy loves talking about how we can embrace our cycle through cycle syncing to help us reach her goals, specifically with money. And she says that if we’re feeling disconnected from our bodies and cycle, then the way that we feel about our money and the results that we achieve can be greatly impacted. Our mindset is so important when it comes to being successful with money and oftentimes we’re telling ourselves a story about how good or bad we are with money. This story can become overwhelming during specific phases which lead us to not take any action. And so when we understand and become aware of where we are in our cycle, we can improve that mindset and begin working towards our goals.

So in this conversation, we’re talking about Kathy’s journey, how did she become the menstrual money coach, and she’s telling us what money has to do with the menstrual cycle. We’re talking about the origins of money shame and taboo and how they’re both linked as sources of power that we have been actively disconnected from. We’re talking about our respective patterns around money and how that changes across different phases of the menstrual cycle. And Kathy’s sharing on different archetypes that she sees in the clients that she works with. So how different people are experiencing different money attitudes across their cycle based on their particular money stories and origins that they’ve grown up with.

Kathy’s also sharing tips of how we can cycle sync our money management based on our cycle and how to be aware and catch our mindset as it comes up, and then how to make better behaviors. Also how to communicate with spouses, particularly if they don’t have a menstrual cycle, how we might relate to each other if we are living with someone else who does have a cycle, whether that’s a partner or a housemate, for example, and how we want to set relationships around money in our families and for our children as well. So this was really, really great episode. That it’s given me so much inspiration and a reinvigoration to look at the money work that I’m doing now and have done before because it’s a focus for me, how to have a cyclical lens on that. Because it’s something that, as you’ll hear.

[05:59] Charlotte: In this episode, I haven’t really thought too much about before or made much of a connection with. So now I feel empowered with new awareness and new tools to dive in deeper and reclaim money as the power that we have every right to have. So happy listening. I’d love to hear from you on Instagram. If you send a DM or drop a comment on the post where you see this episode shared, I’d love to know what you took from this, like what you’ve connected.

Maybe you want to share how your money mindset changes with your cycle. If you have a think about that and if you’ve got any questions, you can pop them in the comments too because Kathy will be tagged in that post and she can support you with.

[07:02] Charlotte: Welcome Kathy Lemire to Wild Flow. How are you today?

[07:06] Kathy: I am great and so excited to be here and chatting with you today, Charlotte.

[07:11] Charlotte: Oh, me too. I’m really excited. When you contacted me about coming onto the podcast, I was like, oh my gosh, yes, I want to hear all about this. So I’m really looking forward to chatting with you. And so let’s just begin, as always, with a cycle check in so we can both connect into our cycles and into our bodies and with each other as well, based on where we’re at in our cycles. And so if you’re listening as well, this is just an invitation for you to notice, just to stop and take a breath and work out where you’re at in your own cycle if you have one, or just where you’re at in the cycles that influence you and just take it as that mindful moment as we begin. So I’ll go first in my menstrual cycle, I’m day 23 and I’m really dropping into that inner autumn, that premenstrual energy. Now I think I’ve ovulated quite late this cycle, so I’m anticipating not bleeding in the next few days, probably another week or more. And this is still just coming off the back of COVID that I had probably two cycles ago that really messed up my cycle. So it’s still a little bit all over the place. And personally I’ve just had a really stressful month this month as well, so I’m allowing for this to be a bit out of my usual rhythm. And so I’m just really being with what I’m noticing. And what I noticed this cycle was that I still had really fertile cervical fluid until about three or four days ago. So definitely feeling like this is going to be a longer cycle. So for me, instead of feeling on day 23 like I am getting tired already and kind of going and more of that kind of less willingness, I guess, to engage with the world in such a sociable way or an energetic way, I feel like I would normally be closing up a little bit. I feel like I’m still very much in that open state and my energy is pretty good. And I did 2 hours of training at Jiu Jitsu last night and enjoyed it, I definitely can tell. Jiu Jitsu has become a really good barometer of where I’m at in my cycle because I sure know when I’ve got energy and strength and when I really don’t. And I’m like, I just do not even want to go there. So, yeah, this week still feels like quite a cruisey week, but I’ve also noticed like a level of some things. Yeah, I don’t know if you ever notice when you’re in that premenstrual phase, not the late premenstrual phase, but like kind of mid when you feel like you’re a bit more sharper to the point and a bit more like booth telling, maybe a little bit more succinct. I feel like this energy is kind of dropping in a little bit and it can be something that I really quite enjoy, less time for fluff, but without a mood that comes with it. And I think that’s just reflective of the amount of cycle work that I’ve done as well. I don’t get sort of PMS symptoms as such. For me, it more shows up late in my cycle right before my period comes when I get that kind of like, just leave me alone. And I don’t want to expend a single drop of energy that I don’t have to. So I enjoy this time of my cycle. It’s a time when I feel quite strong and quite good. So that’s my fairly thorough cycle check in in terms of my menstrual cycle, I guess. And today’s a special day where we are, where we’re recording. Right now I’m in Australia, which is different to where Kathy is and she can tell us that in a moment. But it’s Halloween today and so in the southern hemisphere we don’t necessarily like we celebrate Halloween. It’s something know, my children are going trick or treating, but the kind of seasonally suitable celebration is actually called Beltane. And it’s that peak of spring and that sort of crossing over to summer, welcoming summer’s arrival. And if you notice outside here particularly, anyway, it’s really starting to get hot. Yesterday was our first hot day and it was quite humid as well. And even at nighttime, it was still really warm. And the flowers are all really blossoming and blooming and everything’s super green and lush, and it really feels like we’ve just crossed over into or we are in the process of crossing over into a different season, even though technically summer doesn’t really arrive on the Gregorian calendar for another month. I think what’s really interesting about noticing these Sabbaths, as they’re called, these sort of every seven to eight weeks or so around the year, is that it can help you to tap into these subtle, energetic shifts that we can really notice if you pay attention beyond just what these four seasons of the calendar are telling us. So, yeah, Beltane is something that is celebrated in cultures where it’s really earth based spirituality or agricultural, particularly pagan traditions and originating from Celtic places. That was its name. And it’s this real sort of celebration of winter’s proper ending and this summertime and the joy of all of that to come. So that’s where we’re at in the south and we just passed full moon as well. So this high energy still and yeah, we’re not going to really notice that kind of descent with the waning moon for a little while yet. We’re still very much got that really bright full moon that’s in the sky at nighttime. And I guess the only other thing I want to add is because of our time zone differences, is that for me, we’re coming into midmorning. It’s like nearly 10:30 a.m Here. And so it’ll be interesting to invite Kathy. I’d love to hear from you, just whatever it is that you want to share in relation to a cycle check in. Because we’re in different places as you’ll share, and we can just notice how we relate, how we feel, and then how maybe we relate to each other as well in these different places and spaces in our cycles. So, yeah. Would you like to share with us? Yes.

[14:35] Kathy: Well, thank you. Well, so this is just going to be so interesting, I think, because well, it’s going to be a really fun conversation, but we’re in complete opposite spaces right now. Like you said, it’s morning for you right now it’s evening for me, and I’m winding down my day. Tomorrow is Halloween. Today was just such a, you know, I see the sun just like, beaming in through your window, and today it was just so gray and dreary and I’m in a sweater right now and just wanting to just settle into this nice, cozy conversation. And on top of that, I’m on cycle day twelve, so I am just like, bursting with energy. Pair that with the full moon. So my energy is just even here for me right now. It’s about what, 730 P-M-I still have plenty of energy for the day. And where you’re later in your phase or in your cycle, it’s just we’re kind of like in total opposite energetic spaces right now. So I think this is just going to be so fun. Seasonally, it’s very different. We’re coming into winter, and we’re pretty opposite right now. But this and, you know, it’s really interesting too, because, you know, when I, when I’m looking at, when I want to book podcast episodes, I typically want to do it during these four to five day stretch, like day ten to day 14. And I’ve been noticing more because as you said, less willing to be open as you go later into your cycle that can pair with me with increased feelings of anxiety and senses of overwhelm and things. However, I’ve also noticed I’m incredibly focused and just like you said, a little more succinct and to the point where this phase of my cycle, I feel like I can just be incredibly verbose. So I’m thinking and wondering, I wonder if maybe I should shift that a little later. So maybe my energy just comes down a little bit because sometimes I think I can be way up here at Ten energetically and maybe need to bring it down a little bit. So just something to consider for me in the future, I guess.

[17:13] Charlotte: Oh, I love that so much. I think that’s a really fun reflection and it’s interesting actually. Over the years I’ve had quite changeable cycles, I guess just it does really respond to what’s going on and sickness. I’ve had COVID twice and both times that really messed up my cycle and it’s not been that long actually since I stopped breastfeeding my youngest, I don’t think it’s been a year, I can’t actually remember when it was, so I think it’s coming up to a year and that was really affecting my cycle as well. So I had my cycle but it was like the hormone levels were just not at their optimal kind of rhythm. So I feel like with all the changeability that I’ve had in it, cycle syncing tasks has been really challenging and I’ve had to let go of a lot of that, I guess, prescriptive way of doing things because otherwise it’s like if you’re planning anything in advance, it can just change. And so I found myself podcasting in all different seasons of my cycle when I hadn’t anticipated doing that, just as one example. And I found that I actually can really enjoy podcasting in all the different seasons. I just have to come at it differently and look after myself differently and be really aware of where my energy is at and support myself kind of around perhaps whatever the vulnerability or the challenge might be. I’ve done podcasts as well and I’ve had my period and been feeling like really kind of like but just let myself show up in that kind of slower dreamy state where words are harder to come by and it’s been quite an interesting experience, like getting to know myself in those different ways and sharing myself in those different spaces as well. So I just think it’s really interesting when we have to do something that is not in perhaps the most optimal time of the cycle to do it and how we can just welcome and embrace all parts of us and look after ourselves, I guess around that too. So yeah, I think it’s super interesting like what you’re saying as well about how we’re all at different places in our cycle and the seasons and our energies are just these total opposites, but it’ll just be a beautiful experiment, curiosity, complement, I’m sure as we go through this podcast too. So yeah, super fun to hear your check in and to reflect on those kinds of ways that we can work with our cycle. But then I guess we also have to a point have flexibility and accommodation as well. Yeah, it’s just always like an ongoing practice and an ongoing reflection I think for me. So I love hearing that in you too. Thanks so much for sharing. Right, so I’m really looking forward to diving into this. As I said, when I saw that you’re the menstrual money coach, I was like, what is this? Tell me, tell me, tell me, tell me, tell me. So bit of a personal, I guess, story as well, just to give context as well to why I’m really interested in this, is that obviously menstrual work is what I do and I’ve been doing for a number of years, and I’m really passionate about that. And then personally, money is an area where I’ve been doing a lot of my own work and my own kind of learning, and it’s been like a real area where I found a lot of resistance, and it’s something that’s not come easy to me. Only in the last few months, I think, have I made a personal connection between my menstrual cycle and money. And so I was like, I just noticed a couple of things and was like, oh, that’s kind of interesting. But beyond that, haven’t really gone any further at all into this connection between money and the menstrual cycle. So I’m so fascinated that this is your work, this is what you’re doing, this is what you’re really wanting to educate people on. And so I just love to ask, first of all, how did you come to be the menstrual money coach? So I guess that’s one question, and the tail end of that is, what does money have to do with the menstrual cycle?

[22:07] Kathy: Well, it’s more, I guess, that I would flip it. And what does our menstrual cycle have to do with money and how we depending on what phase we’re in, how we think about our money. And it’s really fascinating, I think. But how I got here is really through my own journey. I came to financial coaching many years ago through my husband and I. We were struggling with money. We were fighting all the time about money. It seemed like no matter what we did, we were still paycheck to paycheck. We kept saying, when our kids are no longer in daycare, then things will be easier when we get that next raise, things will get easier when this happens, then. And the thing is, those things were happening, and nothing was getting easier, and it was becoming more and more of a stressor within our relationship. And neither one of us really grew up with a lot of money. We didn’t really know anything. We just kind of were looking around at what others were doing, and we’re okay, like, we’re just checking the boxes, right? We went to college, and here in the US. Many people graduate with tens of thousands of dollars worth of college debt. We were no different. So we had that. We started a family, and it was just all of those everyday, life building things that were happening that was starting to feel more and more of a burden. And we didn’t really have a plan. We were literally winging it every single paycheck, every single month. And then fighting about it badly as well. To where I was laying awake at night thinking like, if something happens to him, horrible to admit, but if something happens to him, I don’t even know who we pay our mortgage to. I don’t know how to pay the bills. And it’s not that I was necessarily checked out, but he just took it on more naturally than I did. I just had this major anxiety over it and we just couldn’t seem to get on the same page. And around this same time we have four children. We had just had our youngest baby and I knew at that time I was not going to be going back to work because it was just at that point really challenging to manage having four young kids and childcare expenses. And just I felt like I was working so hard to make everything work, to make it work for everyone else except for me. And so then that was an additional stress because now we were going to be losing my income as well. And so it just came to this point where we needed to get help and we get help with this problem, or we were talking separation. So we decided to get help with our money. And our money situation changed within 18 months. We went from being tens of thousands of dollars in debt to being debt free, having a fully funded emergency fund. Our marriage had improved. And I will add a disclaimer too. We did also seek marriage counseling at the same time just to help us learn how to communicate more effectively. We were doing those two things concurrently. And it was just so life changing for me personally, where I suddenly for the first time as an adult and at this point I was in my late thirty s and it was the first time as an adult I felt confident with my money where I felt like I was. Even though I wasn’t at that point, I was now not working out of the home anymore. But I felt like an equal partner in managing our money and I felt like the future was going to look different for our kids than it had before. I just had hope for our financial future for the first time in our marriage. And as we were going through that process, I was telling everyone I knew about it. Did you know you can actually have a plan? Did you know you can do that, have a plan and not just have to wing it every month? As I was kind of looking for that next step for myself, I had friends and family who were just encouraging me, why don’t you do this? Why don’t you help other people with their money? And I was like, I don’t think that that’s a thing. And so I started looking into it and I was like, oh, my gosh, it is a thing. And so I took courses and everything and I launched my financial coaching business and it was great and it was humming along. I was working with clients, but I was working with all different types of clients, as I had told you previously, from couples who were just a few years outside of retirement to newly married couples, young single people, all different and then couples who were in the thick of life in the same place that I was. So working with all different kinds of people. And here I had all of these new tools and strategies, and my husband and I were communicating better than we ever had. We were on the same page and all these things, and yet there was this one piece where it seemed like even with all of these tools, there was a certain point where we could not sit down and effectively talk about our money together, where we would start to fall into those old patterns of bickering and arguing. And I didn’t really notice it, but after several months of this, my husband actually brought it to my attention because I use an app to track my cycle. And during the PMS phase of your cycle, it puts little clouds on a calendar. And so he would just start to say to me, are you in the clouds? And I was like, no. How dare you? How dare you assume that it’s my PMS is why we’re arguing about our money. And so then I started to track and I started to notice, and I was like, oh my gosh, he’s right out. So then I really started noticing and paying attention. And I’m at this point, our youngest is now a toddler preschooler. So I’m past being pregnant, past nursing. My body is normalizing a little bit, and I’m starting to just hit the very edge of perimenopause. And so I’m feeling like the wild ups and downs. So I’m really beginning to tune in and connect with my body and what’s going on. And as I’m doing that, I’m starting to hear these same things from clients where I would have a client show up one week and she’s like, I’m doing amazing. And was so excited and was like, my numbers are all updated and I’ve done this and I’ve done this and I’ve done this and had just all this amazing energy, felt really hopeful around their money. And then we’d meet two weeks later and it was as if I was meeting with a completely different person. And the mindset shift that happens from that one phase to the next phase is really incredible. And so that’s where our cycle really has to do with in what phase we’re in, with how we feel about our money. Because chances are nothing really changed for them financially, but the way they felt about their money was completely different. They would show up two weeks later. I blew it see, I told you I’m no good with money. I do this every time, and I don’t know why, right? So I just simply started to ask, where are you in your cycle? And they were like, My cycle? And nine out of ten times, I don’t know, I think I’m just about to get my period. And so we just started paying attention, and it was really just listening deeply, listening to what I was hearing from my clients paired with my own experience, that led me down this path, because the more I talked about it with other women, the more I heard like, oh, my gosh, me too. And no one’s talking about this. And at the same time, my cycle was I was feeling very hormonally imbalanced. And so I went to my general primary care physician and was saying, I’m feeling crazy. Something’s not right. I shouldn’t feel like I want to walk out on my family every single month. And she was completely dismissive and just said, oh, totally normal. You’re just perimenopausal. I’m like, this can’t be normal, this can’t be normal. And the more women I’ve talked to who have had a similar experience of just being dismissed makes me just want to lean into this all the more, because I think these two areas, money and our health, specifically women’s health, I feel are two areas where women are grossly, grossly underserved. And so that’s kind of the natural progression of how this happened. And I’ve had people reach out to me and say, this is taboo. These are things that we don’t talk about, and for good reason. And I suggest you uphold that taboo. And it just makes me think that means there’s a lot more work to be done. When has upholding the taboo ever really worked out well for women?

[33:47] Charlotte: There’s so much in there that I just want to unpack, and I think where I want to just go next is really speak to that bit about taboo. And I was reflecting as I was thinking about as having this conversation, you’re right. Money and the menstrual cycle are those two areas more perhaps than anything else I can think of that are absolutely like taboo, not talked about, like secret silence. Money is, like you said, it’s the men’s world. They manage it. You look at traditional families where there’s a couple and the man pays the bills and he manages the money, and the woman doesn’t have literacy in that area. And it’s like it’s been taken away from us in times gone by. Pre patriarchy, it used to be women that would hold the land and the wealth, and it got passed down the matrilineal line because you could guarantee who a child’s mother was, because it was obvious she was born from the child, was born from that mother, and so it was passed down that way. And in times it used to be like the predecessors, for example, who would have. High positions of power and would have money and would make leadership decisions and be really involved in wealth and land and all of those kinds of things. And then over time it’s been taken away because it holds power. Money holds power, we know that, right? And it’s like with a menstrual cycle it used to be something that we had great knowledge around and great reverence for and respect and everybody saw the power and the value in it and it’s been taken away from us again. So these two great things that hold immense power have been removed from us. Our access, our understanding, our literacy, our kind of ownership of it have been removed to the point where other people manage it for us, both our bodies and our money. We kind of feel like we only really look at our most people come to look at their menstrual cycle when it causes a problem. I think with money there’s a real thing in that too. It’s like we cruise, we cruise and then it’s like oh okay, I’m in a pickle. I think I really need to actually do something about this. And with both there’s huge amounts of resistance and yet we know that anything that is removed from us or is a taboo is so because it holds immense power and it’s a way of keeping people disempowered, particularly women, because that’s the order that we live in. And I just feel like you’ve really hit on something here where they’re so related and I really want to hear about that from you, about how we can repair that relationship to both, I guess. But I really feel like we need to see both of these things and money. Everyone’s here listening to this podcast because they’re interested in the menstrual cycle but money much less and it’s something that I will have cycle check ins with girlfriends, for example. But we don’t talk about money. It is such like an off the table topic and I think that we all really need to be owning responsible for our money, knowing how to pay the bills, like having a plan. It’s just something that because I’ve been there too, where particularly when I’ve had children and I also had a job that I really didn’t like but was like well, I need to do this because we need the money. And then it got to the point where that job wasn’t sustainable or feasible anymore. And in the early days of starting this business, the reason I really started this business was because I didn’t want to feel like I had to rely on him. And also what if anything happened to him? What then? And I think that this can be something that’s deeply seeded in many of us too is like we inherit our relationship to our menstrual cycle and I think we inherit a relationship to money as well. Absolutely. So I would just love to have spend a bit of time having this deeper conversation about, I guess, relationship with money and relationship with our cycles and how that’s linked and kind of why we need to look at that.

[38:56] Kathy: Yeah, absolutely. So many of us, whether we realize it or not, grow up with a money story that we then bring into adulthood. Right? So a part of that for me, I lost my father at a very young age. I was nine years old. And of course, I didn’t have language for this at that time. And it’s just all what I’m experiencing as a child and seeing how my family changed and how where we had stability, all of a sudden we no longer had stability. And in my adolescent point of view, my mother started dating much well before I felt like I was ready for that. And again, in my adolescent point of view, it was because she needed someone to help support us. And so that is what I saw and I experienced and I brought into my adult relationship with money and that it became so important for me to feel like I would never be dependent. So when I found myself in that position and I’m laying in bed awake thinking, what if something happens to him? That’s what I was feeling, right? I am completely dependent. This is a position I never wanted to be in. And I think for women, especially, if you don’t have confidence in money with your money, or over your money, or control over your money, you lose a little bit of power. And so when we have control over our bodies, our autonomy, our health, our menstrual health beyond just fertility, and we have confidence and control and autonomy with our money, we have choice. And that is what leads to women making empowered decisions and feeling stable and feeling connected and really just having that feeling that they have equality within their relationship, if they’re in a relationship, or even if you’re on your own and you’re single and feeling empowered and confident with your money. And it’s one of the first questions I ask people when we first start talking, what was money like growing up for you? And it’s so interesting how so often whatever they’re currently experiencing is some version of what they experienced as a child. Right? So we bring those experiences into adulthood, and then if we have a partner, they have their own experiences, and sometimes they’re very similar experiences that weren’t very positive. So then you have two people trying to come together and we don’t really know how to talk about it. And there’s a level of shame that goes into that because you think, oh, well, I’m an adult, these are just things I should know how to do. Even though for so many of us, no one really sat us down and ever talked to us about it or how to do it. And it’s the same thing with our cycle, at least I can say that for myself. My mother tells the story of when I first started my period. I remember I was in 7th grade. I was in chemistry class. She took me out that night to get ice cream, bought me a very popular book at the time. It was called, like, Our Bodies, Ourselves or I Believe, and a big thing of pads, and that was it. And she said, I asked, well, how long am I going to have this? And she was like, oh, you might bleed for like four to seven days. And my response was like, oh, that’s not bad. And she was like, oh, she doesn’t get it. No, like every month for the rest of your adult life. And a part of me now as an adult is like, well, yeah, Mom, I didn’t know, because you didn’t talk to me about it, because I didn’t know. And it was not something we talked about with my girlfriends and things, and we had all these code words for it and stuff. And I’ve had women who are postmenopausal who I’ve worked with, who have just been in tears and saying, I am so happy the women coming up behind me are talking about this, because when I was coming up and going through it, I had no one to talk to. I couldn’t even talk to my partner about it. It was that taboo and something we just didn’t talk about. Right. And what has been portrayed in Hollywood and movies and television, it’s always like the crazy hormonal lady, right, flying off the handle. That is what society is telling us. That when if we’re feeling emotional or hormonal, that’s how we’re pictured. And I just want to change that narrative and that there’s so much more happening with us, and that within each little phase of our cycle, we have these superpowers within each phase, and there’s so much more that’s going on for us than flipping out during PMS.

[45:10] Charlotte: Yeah, I love that. I love that so much. And I think your experience there is so common for so many people, what you’re saying there about not knowing about what to expect with your menstrual cycle. And you’re so right. Nobody teaches about us, about money, and nobody teaches about the menstrual cycle.

[45:33] Kathy: The only thing we learn about our menstrual cycle is strictly with regards to fertility and not everything else that’s happening for us hormonally. Especially if you’re looking at teenagers who are just starting, and it’s all about how not to get pregnant, and then we don’t really think about it again until you’re an adult and now maybe trying to get pregnant, and you don’t really think much about it until you start experiencing issues. It’s just something that we are so conditioned to think. It’s just something we have to deal with and manage, as opposed to something that we can embrace in this beautiful cyclical way of living, which is how we’re meant to be is how we’re wired to be. You had mentioned jiu jitsu and an example that I like to give often. And it really hit me this past summer for me. So what I love to do, I love to run. And my husband’s also a runner, and in June we both ran a half marathon together. And so we did many of our training runs leading up to the half marathon together. And my last long run pre race was about two weeks before the race. My longest training run, which was about 12 miles, and I was sick in PMS. It was like the day before the day of I was supposed to start my period and it was really hot. We started a little bit too late and I just had no energy in the tank whatsoever. But I knew I’m like, I have to get this run done, even if nothing else, just to ease my anxiety for the race of like, I have these miles in my legs, I can do this. And I ended up having a terrible run. Meanwhile, my husband had an amazing run. He put down 12 miles, no problem. And then later that day, I did start my period. And this is where, for me, embodying cycle thinking has been such a game changer. It’s the next biggest game changer in my life after getting our money under control, because pre cycle sinking, and this is what I find too, is so common with so many women. I would have been saying things to myself like, I’m terrible at running. There’s no way I’m going to be able to do this race in two weeks. That was awful. I don’t even know why I bother trying to run. Because it took me I had to stop. I popped in a store to get a drink. It took me about 3 hours, 3 hours to get this. And that wasn’t even full race distance. And meanwhile, he had a great run. And for me to try and compare where I was at energetically and hormonally to where he’s at, where he’s the same every day, is so unrealistic. But that’s what we do. That’s what we do in the workplace. That’s what we do socially. That’s what we do. And it’s this internal dialogue that we’re having with ourselves. What’s wrong with me? Why can’t I do this? And when you are disconnected from where you’re at, you don’t have answers to those. So it just becomes this loop that you repeat month after month. But instead, because I knew I’m starting my period today, this is probably the worst activity I could be doing, going out and running 12 miles the day I start my period. Yoga would probably serve me much better today. I can just let it go, right? It doesn’t have to say anything about me at all. It’s just this is just where I’m at. And sometimes we can take a look at our calendar and we can shift and make adjustments to our engagements, our social calendar, meetings at work, whatever that is. And sometimes you just have to go out and get it done anyway. But releasing that guilt, that shame, that negative voice that just loops in our head can be such a game changer. And that’s what happens with our money as well, right when we get back into that PMS phase, when we’re like, I blew it again. I knew it. And it’s like, you didn’t. Nothing actually changed. We need to look at this loop differently and know that sitting down at the height of PMS probably isn’t the best time for you to sit down and work in your budget or with your partner or something like that, right? There’s a better time during your cycle to do that, and you might just be doing the wrong task at the wrong time, or that it’s not optimal. So you’re having those negative feedbacks in the same way that going out and trying to run 12 miles on the day that you get your period. It’s not an ideal task to be doing.

[51:10] Charlotte: I love that story. I think that’s such a brilliant example of when you’re fighting against your own inner rhythm, like where you’re at in your cycle, but also that comparison between what it’s like when you have a cycle and when you don’t have a cycle. And releasing those stories, I think is really powerful. So I’m really curious then, with a money lens, I’d like to share the reflections I had that came to me about my cycle with money and dive into more about how we can work with our cycle, to work with money. So what I’ve noticed is that when I’m in my Follicular phase, when I’m in my spring and summer, I am really optimistic about money. I’m like, oh, I’m really hopeful and trusting. Money always flows. Money’s coming in. All is well. Yes, we might have big bills or be a bit short, maybe, but it’s like, oh, all is well, all is in hand, all is good. But it’s also a time when I’m really most likely to go and make unnecessary purchases. So I’m like eyeing off a dress and I’m like, I really want that. And I’m like, oh, it doesn’t matter if I just buy that, does it? And I’m like, add to cart, that kind of thing. But I also have this pattern now where I never just buy something immediately. I sort of have told myself that because I’m not responsible with money, I think this has been like the long term story. It’s been like, you’re not good with money, so you can’t have what you want. You need to leave it in your cart, you need to watch it, you need to work out. Like, do you really need it? And now I find myself as a default coming at it like, do I need it? Because if I get myself something that I didn’t need but I really wanted, like shame. That’s when a shame spiral will start. So I will often lust after something because I’ve also got this story where purchasing things is like a reward. It feels good, but like this sort of authoritarian voice going, you can’t have that, that’s not a good thing. And so I will sit with things in my cart until I get to my premenstrual phase and then I feel like I’m a bit more able to make a rational decision of like, well, you don’t need it, but you want it. And let’s look at the budget, let’s look at what’s going on. Can you have it? Yes or no? So that can be like a sort of fairly rational time, I guess, less emotional and more logical. But then when I get into my late premenstrual phase, right before I’m about to bleed, I sometimes can get into this real spiral of I’ve got no money, there’s no money, I’m rubbish with money. Like a real scarcity mindset of like, oh my God. And I get into this panic and this overwhelm and this anxiety can really build. And I have observed this spiral like, happening and then I’m like, oh yeah, my period is coming. And then it kind of dissipates, but it’s like this real fear scarcity. There’s not enough. I’m not supported, I’m not smart with money. And that whole kind of like, what if pattern can play out. So that’s just what I’ve noticed with my mindset, I guess, and my attitude towards money. Whereas in my springtime, it’s like, I feel really easy about paying bills. I’m like, yeah, that’s the money, that’s what that’s for, that can go there like brilliant tick and it feels good to pay bills, for example, whereas paying bills in my premenstrual phase feels terrible. It feels really scary. And so I’m just curious if you’d like to elaborate some more about the patterns that you see in each phase, I guess, or maybe go into what you suggest that people do in tasks, I guess from a cycle thinking perspective around the cycle, what’s a good time, when? And what are some of those patterns, I guess, that you see coming up for people?

[56:05] Kathy: Yeah, so such fascinating observations. And you’re not alone in that at all. Not at all. So what I’ve really started to notice is that we’re all unique and how our cycle affects us is different for everyone. So my pattern, I was the.

[56:30] Charlotte: Hold.

[56:31] Kathy: It in, hold it in, hold it in, everything explodes. And we have a massive argument during PMS, right? So there’s these kind of archetypes that I’m noticing and that’s one of them, the PMS argument, where that’s just everything kind of builds up the whole cycle. And if money is a stressor in your relationship, that’s most likely when it’s going to come out. When you’re having the really heated arguments over money, you have the most negative outlook on your money. It feels incredibly stressful that’s when you’re saying, here we are, paycheck to paycheck again. When is this going to end? I’ve had enough of this, things like that. So that’s one pattern and I think it may take a couple of cycles for you to notice maybe what your pattern is. I just had someone say to me recently who’s been following me, an acquaintance, she’s like, when you first started doing this, I was like, I don’t know what she’s talking about. Like, I don’t know. And she’s like, and the more I listen and the more I’m paying attention, I was like, oh my goodness, when I am just about to get my period and I’m feeling irritable or bored or she’s like, what am I doing? I’m on Instagram and like, carding, carding, carding, carding, right? So that is a self soothing habit and tends to happen more in that phase as well. When you just want to kind of check out, right? You’re feeling more introverted, not feeling great about yourself. Maybe you’re feeling a little extra bloated and grumpy and things like that. So you’re looking for something to soothe and make you feel better. And then there’s a group that I’m seeing as well where around that Follicular phase where just what you said, where everything feels easy, you feel very hopeful. But that’s when we’re also more likely to be outgoing, energetic. That’s when we say yes to all of the things. Do you want to go get drinks? Yes. Do you want to go do this?

[58:59] Charlotte: Yes.

[59:00] Kathy: Because we have the energy, we’re feeling extroverted, all of those things. And so that we start to say yes during our and I have found, not surprisingly, because our menstrual cycles are not studied among the medical community very extensively, but there are studies that support that women’s impulsivity does increase during their Follicular and Ovulation phase. So that’s when we are more likely, I should say more likely to be impulsive and maybe make purchases that we had not previously planned for, if that is your pattern. And then that’s when then two weeks later when you’re in PMS and you’re saying, I blew it again. But just knowing that and having that awareness, we can pad your budget around that there’s so many things that we can do. But that’s also what I notice where so much of this comes back to mindset and just having that connection is this is also the time when people are saying yes to engagements that maybe are a couple of weeks out, like, oh yeah, that sounds fun. I’d love to join you on this or that or yes, I will show up and volunteer at the kids school for this activity or that activity, and then without really checking in on their calendar to see where they’re going to be in their cycle, and then the event comes up and they don’t want to do it at all. And we do one of two things, right? Like we either push through and we do it and we do that cycle after cycle after cycle to where we just have complete fatigue because we haven’t been listening to our bodies. Or we cancel and we flake out. And then that’s when I’m seeing women who are like, I’m flaking out again. What is wrong with me? Why do I keep doing this? And it’s like, nothing’s wrong with you. You were just saying yes to too many things that when they actually came up, you just weren’t going to be in a great place to go do that, right? So, so much of what I’m doing with cycle thinking and with money, it all comes back to connection. Being connected with ourselves and our bodies and listening to what is going on with our bodies and being connected to with our money, what it is that we really want, what are the things in life that we really want? What is the life that we want? So what are we saying yes to? And how is that in alignment with being in sync with our cycle and being connected so that it makes saying no to the things that aren’t in alignment so much easier. It is so much easier to me, for me now to say when I know it’s day 26, 27, 28, for me to just look at the calendar and say, no, I’m not going to do that. And it’s so freeing, there’s no guilt. And I just will say to my girlfriends, like, no, that’s not a good time for me. And that’s all I have to say. And when it comes around and I’m cozy on my couch and I’ve got tea and I just am relishing in my decision and I knowing they’re out, there’s no fear of missing out. It’s like I am doing exactly what I need to do. And what I find is that when we do that, we have more energy going into the next phase of our cycle, so we’re not as depleted. And so that’s why I love just embracing cycle thinking with managing our money because it makes reaching those goals a lot more sustainable. Instead of just going feast or famine and you’re never going out to eat again and not until all your debts being paid off. That just doesn’t work in any goal you’re trying to reach, no matter what it is. So it’s a way, I think, for.

[01:03:27] Charlotte: Me.

[01:03:29] Kathy: To slow down, regain that connection so that we can actually speed up later. Because then once you slow down and you’re deeply connected to with your body, yourself, your goals, your values, you just start having so much momentum towards your goals that then things seem to happen really quickly.

[01:03:56] Charlotte: That’s amazing. I love that.

[01:03:59] Kathy: From that scarcity to abundance mindset.

[01:04:03] Charlotte: Yeah, I think that makes it seems it seems really obvious when you describe it like that. It’s like yes, of course, that makes so much sense. But I think in reality, very few people have made that connection and are really thinking about managing their money with that menstrual lens, with that cyclical lens. But we know that the cycle influences every single part of us, the way that we see ourselves, the way that we interact with the world around us, the way that we interact with our partners. I think that’s really a fascinating part as well. Because if they’re not cycling, does that then mean that from your experience, that if somebody doesn’t have a menstrual cycle so let’s just say a man, for example, in a partnership, do you find that that sort of mindset would be more consistent and kind of like it is what it is? And so as the cyclical person in that relationship, we are going to relate to our partners differently. And I guess we need to educate them a little bit as well on how we’re ebbing and flowing. How do we work with a partner who’s not cycling? Is that a thing?

[01:05:16] Kathy: Yes. And not all of us are cycling either. Whether you’re on hormonal birth control or you have a medical condition that you’re not cycling, but you still want to have this cyclical energy. I’m always suggesting for those folks to follow the lunar cycle if you still just want to embrace this cyclical energy. But I think the biggest thing if you’re living with someone who is not cycling, is just to bring awareness so that they know how to best support you and how you can have constructive conversations when maybe because as I mentioned, my husband was the first one to really point this out for me because he was the one walking on eggshells for several days every month. Right. So our partners do know what’s going on. They just don’t know how to talk to us about it. And they don’t know when a good time to talk to us about it is. They know it’s probably not during the height of PMS, but outside of that, they don’t know when to talk to us or how to ask without us screaming at them or something like that. But I think that’s the biggest thing is just knowing how they can support us and knowing and saying, hey, these couple of days, it’s not going to be a good time for us to sit down and talk about our budget or try and have constructive conversation around that. But that might mean then your partner is maybe doing a little bit more of the tracking of the expenses and you’re not during Ovulation is a really great time to sit down together and say, what do we have coming up the next three months and have those big dream conversations? And where do we want to be six months from now? Where do we want to be a year from now? Because as you said earlier, it all feels lighter and easier to have those conversations at that time. And it’s a really good time then to look at your calendar for the rest of the month and say, what could we maybe move around and what do we have coming up over the next couple of months? It’s a nice open time to have those big dreamy. If money weren’t an issue, what would we want things to look like? And okay, how can we put a plan in place to take steps to get there?

[01:08:12] Charlotte: I love that. That’s brilliant. And I was just reflecting as well to myself how if someone’s in a relationship with if both people are cycling or living with somebody where there’s two people with cycles that are maybe not aligned as well, the same logic applies. Like work to your strengths, depending on who’s at where in their cycle, and share where you’re at. Communicate. One person maybe takes certain tasks on when the other person doesn’t. Or just, for example, just thought that was another that’s such a brilliant way of looking at it. Have that communication, ask for support, share where you’re at. And I love the sense of using that follicular ovulation time as tracking and then dreaming and big picture visioning. And I think we don’t do enough of that in my relationship, enough of that kind of daring to dream, like letting ourselves think about because my husband has his particular money stories that are quite strong and I’m working through mine and I have awareness of what they are. But I think that that’s something else that I’ve noticed as well I need to kind of really notice, pay attention to is like, what’s my story? What’s his story? What’s just a story versus what’s the truth? And I’m going to encourage ourselves to really dream into it and instead of going, oh, but that’s not going to happen, or why would we dream into that? Because it just feels unattainable. That’s part of it. That’s how we set goals and that’s how we work towards what we want rather than, I guess that’s how we break that cycle as well. So there’s heaps in there that I’m going to take from this conversation and I feel really inspired and invigorated and I feel like at the particular point I’m at in my cycle, you’ve helped me to really tune into what’s present for me around money at the minute. But I’m going to approach that new cycle as it comes in a completely different way, I think, to how I have done in the past. So I’m going to use this time to share with him what we’ve talked about. And yeah, take that real cyclical approach into the money work that we’re doing because we’re doing a joint, we’re doing a program at the minute that we’re both doing together. And I can see how not having a cycle focus in that program or in the work we’re doing. It’s like a real missing.

[01:11:01] Kathy: Link.

[01:11:02] Charlotte: So I think what you’re doing is really amazing and so fascinating. And I hope that people who are listening are like, inspired as well to think about money and how it’s a source of power that we need to reclaim for ourselves. But also how when we’re telling ourselves those stories, like we’re useless with money or thinking about money is scary or whatever it is, to just notice how that mindset and those stories are coming up in different phases of our cycle too. So thank you so much, Kathy. I’ve loved this so much.

[01:11:42] Kathy: Yeah, this has been so, you know, I just hope, too, that if you are someone who is experiencing the wild ups and downs and just are feeling, oh, yeah, this all sounds well and.

[01:11:57] Charlotte: Good, but I just don’t even have.

[01:11:58] Kathy: The energy to take on tackling my money. I know I need to. And if money is something that is stressful for you in your life, by cycle thinking and reducing our symptoms, the stress around your money and gaining control is going to help reduce your symptoms. So you’re not going to feel as up and down and up and down as maybe you are, because I hear that pretty frequently in that I don’t even have the energy. One more thing. It’s like, okay, well, let’s deal with that first and get you energetically at a place where not everything feels so overwhelming and then we can start making sense of where you’re at financially.

[01:12:53] Charlotte: What an awesome point. Yeah, I love that. And how those symptoms can be linked. Amazing. So if anyone wants to come and find you, work with you, could you share with us about where people can connect, but also about the offerings, the coaching, what programs or services you’ve got available as well?

[01:13:15] Kathy: Yeah, so I’m mostly on Instagram at the menstrual money coach. Anyone can feel free to send me a DM or go to Themenstrualmoneycoach.com and connect with me there. I’m offering one on one coaching still because it’s so deeply personal in getting into people’s cycles, it’s incredibly vulnerable to have to open up about not just your money, but then what might be going on for you hormonally as well. So it’s a very safe space. We’re just private one on one coaching for the moment. I love getting to know my clients and their stories and always feel it’s such an honor when people share with me their journey and to be a part of their journey, it’s so incredibly rewarding.

[01:14:07] Charlotte: Amazing. That sounds wonderful. Thank you. So everyone go check out Kathy. And if this is something that you’re like, yep, I need to dive into this. This is calling me. This is like a real area where I’m feeling blocks or resistance or just like I really need to face, you know, that you need some support to really do that. Then go and find Kathy and discover her work. Sounds amazing. Thank you so much for an incredible conversation. I’m sure everyone’s going to find this really illuminating and inspiring. So yeah. Thank you. Thank you so much.

[01:14:50] Kathy: Thank you. And I have to say, your Day 23 energy was very calming for me. So thank you for that.

[01:14:59] Charlotte: That’s good today. Thank you so much.

[01:15:01] Kathy: Yes.

[01:15:05] Charlotte: Thanks so much for listening to Wildflow. I love having you here. If you’re loving this podcast, why not leave a rating and review and share your favorite episodes with those you think would love to listen? And if you share on Instagram, tag me at charlote Puento coach to take the next step in your own journey of learning how to live, love and lead and flow with your cyclical nature. And for deeper guidance and support in your cycle embodiment journey, you can discover my freebies and join my Wildflow coven, my new Cycle Wisdom membership, or even discover my group programs, private cycle coaching and courses all on my website@charlotepronto.com. Until next time, go well with the flow of your body’s cyclic nature.

meet cathy

Cathy Lemire Money Mindset and the Menstrual Cycle on Wild Flow Podcast with Charlotte Pointeaux

Cathy is a financial coach for women who know their menstrual cycle is wreaking havoc on their life and are struggling to manage their energy. The ups and downs throughout their cycle make it feel impossible to set goals, let alone achieve them. Through years of coaching, she is here to inspire you to connect with your body and connect with your money, all while making it feel sustainable.

She teaches women to embrace their cycle as their superpower so that they can stop the monthly PMS fight over money with their spouse, the emotional spending splurge followed by regret and feelings of self sabotage.

When she is not coaching, you can find her cheering on her children from the sidelines or out in the woods on the trails with her husband and dogs!

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And please please share this with a cycle bestie, or three, to help them put cycle knowledge into practice so we can all rise and thrive together! 

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meet your host

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Charlotte Pointeaux

Charlotte Pointeaux is an Internationally Award-Winning triple-Certified Coach, Youth Mentor, Host of Wild Flow Podcast, a sought-after guest menstrual educator and speaker. She is a Shamanic Womancrafter, a Priestess of the Cycle Mysteries.

Charlotte’s work as a Wild Feminine Cycle Coach weaves together shamanic womb healing and rite of passage work with menstrual cycle awareness and feminine embodiment tools, to guide women through their transformational journey of reclaiming their wild feminine cyclic powers to expressing their big magick as a sacred leader.

Charlotte founded First Moon Circles®, a renowned facilitator training program, to train new menstrual educators to prepare, honour and celebrate children and their care-givers at menarche (their first period). To date, she has trained almost 100 facilitators across 5 continents and is on a mission to infuse families, friendships, classrooms and communities with period positivity and menstrually inclusive practices.

Download your free menstrual magick guide by subscribing to my newsletter, and discover my coaching, courses and short classes at www.charlottepointeaux.com/coaching.

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