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Today we’re talking womb wisdom, womb healing through massage and menstrual cycle awareness. Today’s guest Alisha Rose Kruger is a holistic menstrual cycle coach and womb healing guide. She supports women in discovering the wisdom of their menstrual cycles and deepening into reverent relationship with their wombs. 

tune in to hear:

In our conversation we’re chatting:

  • Alisha’s personal healing journey, what helped her have better periods, and her advice for mothers who want to support their children with similar symptoms,

  • Healing the ancestral experiences of menstrual cycles in your lineage,

  • What womb wisdom is and how to tap into it,

  • Being realistic about your cycle awareness practice and rituals,

  • How womb massage and healing can be a nourishing addition to our menstrual cycle awareness journey,

  • How massage can support reproductive health overall, and the menstrual cycle more specifically,

  • How massage can support emotional, energetic and ancestral healing that is stored within the womb,

  • What to expect during a womb hara massage, and how to find a practitioner, and

  • How to begin a simple self-massage practice at home

meet alisha

Alisha is passionate about teaching women how to align with their cyclical nature to enrich every area of their lives, including their physical health, emotional wellbeing, self-care rituals, spiritual practice, creative expression and leadership. She also guides shamanic womb healing journeys for both groups and individuals, and offers womb massage sessions on the Gold Coast, Australia. Alisha is a certified Menstruality Mentor, Women’s Hormonal Health Coach, Integrative Womb Hara Massage therapist, Holistic Pelvic Care™ practitioner and yoga teacher. She works with clients both online and in-person.

[00:00] Alisha: I really love the combination of working with the physical body and then working with energetic, emotional, ancestral, all of those types of things as well. Wimhara massage is a really gentle nourishing massage that works with like the abdomen and the pelvic bowl area. It can support with so many things different premenstrual symptoms like no period pain, cramps. It really just restores as circulation and blood flow and energy to the womb space. It helps to shift and clear a lot of stagnant energy, whether that’s like physical tension, emotional, energetic stuff that we’re holding on to. The energy of wombhara is so nourishing. Like it really creates this space of women can feel safe to soften and be held. It’s working with the body to create the space for the body to release and let go as it’s ready to.

[00:56] Charlotte: Welcome to Wild Flow Podcast with me, Charlotte Pointeaux. I’m an internationally award winning menstrual cycle and embodiment coach, Cycle Mysteries guide and founder of the first Moon Circle School of Menstrual Education for children. Tune in for deep, heartfelt conversations with wisdom keepers, embodied leaders and change makers on themes from cyclical living in flow with your menstrual cycle embodies wisdom, reclaiming rites of passages to normalize period positivity for you and the next generation and exploring our embodied experiences, soulful transformations and intuitive wisdom guiding you to express and embody your full power in the change you want to see in the world. Are you ready? Let’s flow. Alisha Rose Kruger is a holistic menstrual cycle coach and womb healing guide. She supports women in discovering the wisdom of their menstrual cycles and deepening into reverent relationship with their wombs. Alisha is passionate about teaching women how to align with their cyclical nature to enrich every area of their lives, including their physical health, emotional well being, self care rituals, spiritual practice, creative expression and leadership. She also guides shamanic womb healing journeys for both groups and individuals and offers womb massage sessions on the Gold coast of Australia. Alisha is a certified menstruality mentor, women’s hormonal health coach, integrative womb horror massage therapist, holistic pelvic care practitioner and yoga teacher. She works with clients both online and in person. This episode is just a really beautiful dive into the power of menstrual cycle awareness and womb wisdom and the multitude of ways that this work can support people’s physical, emotional, spiritual and creative vitality. We talked about Alisha’s experience with heavy and really difficult periods as a twelve year old and how she went onto the pill and then came off at age 20 and went on a healing journey and what worked for her and her advice for any mothers listening who might have similar children with similar experiences. We talked about what womb wisdom is and what it means to Alisha and how connecting to the wisdom of the womb and cycle supports Alisha in her life and her work. We talked about the body work that Alicia does, the womb hara massage and holistic pelvic care. How it works on the physical, emotional, energetic and shamanic realms to help bring healing and releasing and so many benefits. How womb massage and healing can be a nourishing addition to the menstrual cycle awareness journey and the types of circumstances or life stages or phases that we can be in when this practice can be particularly helpful. How womb Hara massage can help support with ancestral healing and what to expect during a healing session and also how to begin a simple self massage practice at home. I really loved this conversation with Alicia and I’m sure that you will too. Settle in and get ready for another beautiful episode. Let’s flow welcome Alisha to Wild Flow podcast. How are you?

[04:43] Alisha: I’m great, thanks. Thank you so much for having me.

[04:46] Charlotte: Thank you for coming on. I’m really looking forward to chatting with you. So let’s start our conversation then with a cycle check in, as we always do, just to orient to our own cycles and what’s going on around us as well, seasonally and cyclically. So I’ll go first and then I’ll invite you to just share what feels true for you today. So for me, I’m on cycle day 25 of what’s been between 28 and 30 days cycle recently. So I do feel like I’m in the last few days of this cycle and I can feel my energy dropping off, but it’s still there. But just that gentle winding in and I feel like I’m really looking forward to that quiet, still, restful inward time, temple time. When it comes after what’s been a really busy cycle, it’s just been like one of those that I could see coming that was going to be really busy and I was doing everything I could to make it not intense, but there were still parts that were intense because we had school holidays and sick children and it just kind of scuppered our plans for ease and spaciousness and support. So we’ve just had to adapt and make do and get through the month what’s been a really busy month anyway. So I feel like that’s going to be interesting to see how it plays out when I come to bleeding time. And, yeah, I think I’ll just really need to lean into the extra rest when that comes. So, yeah, feeling good. Otherwise, calm and steady and happy and grounded. And just like a gentle exhale is happening, it’s just softening. And today, while we’re recording this, there’s some things going on cosmically that I thought it would be cool to share. So, in the southern hemisphere, it’s the astrological day of in bulk, which is the halfway point between the winter solstice and the spring equinox. So, embodk that time where the days are starting to lengthen a little bit. And for me, I’m definitely noticing it’s not dark so early and it feels quite like, oh, hopeful. I like that. It’s nice. And the plants are just starting. I’ve got daffodils and hyacinths in the garden and they’ve grown their foliage, but the flowers aren’t there yet, so it’s like it’s coming. And really strangely, the first cherry blossoms are already blossoming, which doesn’t normally happen here for another month, which seems a bit alarming. I feel like it’s a bit of a red flag as to what kind of summer we’re going to have. It just seems like everything’s happening a bit earlier. I don’t know if that’s with you too. And then the other thing, just to share is that today it’s the Lionsgate portal. So I’m not an expert or anything in astrology, but I do love it. And so today is a day where there’s a few things aligning. So there’s a few stars in alignment, so apparently it’s earth, Orion’s belt, and the star Sirius. And so it’s this portal, apparently, that means that we can expect rapid and accelerated transformation and growth, and it’s a portal into actualizing ourselves and expanding. Yeah. In our personal selves, in our energetic selves as well. So I’ve just been googling what that is about because I’ve heard so much about it, but didn’t know too much. So that’s today. So it’s a bit cosmic at the minute. There’s lots of things going on. And the moon is in. It’s reaching third quarter today, which is the waning moon. It’s the half moon. It’s halfway between full moon and the new moon. And so it’s that time of letting go of what’s not aligning for us, what we’re ready to release or what might be holding us back and just gently encouraging ourselves to let go of those things and so that we can make space for what’s new or what we want to prioritize our energy with and grow in the new cycle when the moon is new next week. So, yeah, there’s a few things happening and that’s where I’m at. So, Alisha, I’d love to invite you just to share if you have a menstrual cycle where you’re adding that and how that feels for you today. And just curious whether you resonate with any of the other cycles or seasons as well.

[10:12] Alisha: Yeah, absolutely. I’m on cycle day 20 today and my cycle is usually around 31 to 32 days. So I’m like three days post ovulation, very in that late summer, inner autumn sort of time in my cycle, which for me is actually my favorite time in the cycle currently. I feel like it’s such this beautiful sweet spot where I’m starting to feel like that softening and that groundedness that I don’t necessarily feel in summer because summer can be such a big energy, I tend to get swept up in that quite easily. But as I transition into this late summer, early autumn phase, I’ve been feeling more grounded. I feel clearer. I feel like I can sort of take a step back and slow down and see things more clearly, starting to feel more creative and more intuitive and more of those autumn gifts. But I’ve still got some of that energy and momentum and focus still coming in from the summer. And so for me, it’s a real sweet spot. And I’m particularly excited actually, to be in this phase of my cycle this week because I’ve had a cold for the last week. You maybe still hear it, a little bit of my voice, but I was sick for my entire summer and so I didn’t get to take advantage of that real high energy phase of my cycle. I was resting a lot. So I’m excited to be in this season where I’m feeling like I’ve pretty much recovered, but I’ve still got some gas in the tank and I can take care of some things that I’m really excited about. So that’s where I met in my cycle. But in terms of what you said about the seasons and spring coming earlier this year, so I’m in Queensland, which is different part of Australia to you, but I’ve absolutely noticed that this year. I think I noticed the cherry blossoms, like four or five weeks ago when my parents were visiting. And the other thing that I noticed, which was, like you said, alarming. That was the perfect word. There’s a little pair of plovers, these two birds, which she comes. This is the second spring we’ve lived in this house, and last spring they came and she laid her eggs in the middle of a median strip around the corner from my house. And I wondered if they would be back again this year, and they are. And so she’s come and laid her eggs and papa bird is, like, prowling around, protecting her, but they were about five or six weeks earlier than they were last year. So, yeah, I’m also really noticing that spring feels very early this year, which it’s exciting because it’s nice to be done with winter and to feel that reemerging energy of spring and to see all the things starting to bloom in the garden, but also, like you said, wondering what that means for the shifting cycles and what we’re in for throughout the summer. So, yeah, I have mixed feelings about that also.

[13:14] Charlotte: Yeah, I really feel like that. I think that we can really notice what’s, like, climate change and those swings between we have the El Nino and the La Nino weather patterns in Australia, where La Nina is like the flood times and then El Nino is where we have the bushfire times. And they said, normally we’ve just swung out of three years of such heavy rains and floods, and I’m sure you would have had that up in Queensland, too. And it’s like, normally you have a bit of a gap between. You swing back to the opposite extreme, but not. So it’s like we’ve just swung straight out of one into the other. So, yeah, it just feels like chaos in nature. Like she’s really out of balance. I feel like. I really echo what you feel, like excited that the coldness of winter is like, oh, maybe we can get that warmth soon and look forward to all the joys of spring and summer. But also it’s like, no, we really need the winter. Like it has a purpose. It’s not meant to be here. It’s kind of wrong. So it’s that tension between excitement and hope versus rushing out of the gate too soon. So, yeah, we’ll see what happens. But, yeah, thank you for sharing as well. And I really love what you said about where you’re at in your menstrual cycle and how this is your sweet spot. You really enjoy this time, like, post ovulation, and I really know what you mean. For me, that’s a really lovely time, too, where everything kind of just chills a little bit, but it’s still like that really have buoyant energy and joy and. Yeah, it’s like riding the wave kind of energy. And I can hear it in you as well, saying where you’re at and then how you were sick before. And so you’re still getting to enjoy that summer energy, but in a really nice, gentle way.

[15:18] Alisha: Yeah, absolutely. I feel like the sweet spot of my cycle changes depending on what season of my life that I’m in. But overall, I think throughout the years, this point in my cycle has probably consistently been one of my favorites.

[15:37] Charlotte: Yeah, that’s a really interesting point, too. Yeah, think about that, like, where you’re at in your life cycle as well. Yeah.

[15:44] Alisha: Cool.

[15:45] Charlotte: Alisha, I’d love to invite you just to share with us for people who don’t know you, just who you are and what you do. And I guess following on from that, too, what brings you to do this? What’s brought you to do what you do?

[16:01] Alisha: Yeah, I would love to share. So I’m a holistic menstrual cycle coach and wombhara massage practitioner, amongst various other things. So what really sort of catalyzed this journey into being so interested in everything to do with womb wisdom and the menstrual cycle was initially, I came off the pill when I was around 20 years, been on it for eight years. At that point, I was put on it really young because I had such debilitating periods. Like I was getting, I would bleed for ten days, I would be vomiting, I would be home from school. And so, like so many other women of that generation, I was just put on the pill as of a band aid for all of those problems. And when I came off the pill when I was 20, they were all still there and exacerbated by seven or eight years of being on the pill. And so it was really just for my own personal healing journey that I started researching the cycle, trying to understand what was going on in my body, why I was experiencing such awful cycles, and trying to figure out really how I could fix it, how I could heal my own cycle, because it had sort of taken over my whole life. It was really just being a cyclical being at that point in my life was a pretty horrendous experience, but I also knew that I didn’t want to go back on birth control, so the only way out was really through. And so I started with more of wanting to understand the physical aspects of the menstrual cycle and hormonal health, and then sort of went down the rabbit hole of how does that affect our emotions? How does that affect our creative energy? How can we work with the cycle in business and how it really impacts every aspect of our life and well being? And I just couldn’t get enough. I just found it so fascinating. And as I started to implement little mindset changes or changes in the way that I approached things, like, at the time, I was running my own business as a graphic designer and illustrator. So, like, very creative job and being self employed, obviously had more agency around experimenting with different ways of working that would sort of suit my personal flow. And so bringing menstrual cycle awareness into the way that I worked, I found really transformative in terms of I was experiencing more creative energy and also able to do the work that I loved without burning out so often. I’d really been stuck in the cycle of overdoing and burning out. So I started out with being fascinated by the menstrual cycle. I was also teaching yoga at the time as a side job. And I remember picking up Tamil Lynn Kent’s book, Wild Creative or Wild Feminine. I can’t remember which book it was, but I picked up one of her books in the library and that was my first introduction into sort of like the energetics of the womb space and womb wisdom. And I was just absolutely captivated by that book. And I started to implement some of the practices that she writes about in my own life and it was really transformative for me. And little did I know a few years later, I would end up going and training with her. So, yeah, it’s really just sort of been this desire to keep learning more and more about everything to do with the menstrual cycle and womb wellness. And that eventually led me to get into cycle coaching myself and become a holistic pelvic care practitioner through training with Tammy and then the Wombara massage. Yeah, I can’t get enough. I just want to learn everything and I love teaching and sharing this work.

[19:59] Charlotte: Amazing. Thanks for sharing so much. Fascinated because I feel like so many of us come into this because of our own experiences, and I really resonate with what you were saying about going onto the pill and then coming off the pill and how that sends you on this journey into the self healing and then following that as what you give back to the world as well. And I feel like that’s so similar to my kind of path. And I’m just curious just from what you were sharing about your debilitating periods that you had and as maybe teenager, maybe even a little bit younger from what you’re saying, when you first started your periods and then they came back as well, just like that, and exacerbated when you came off the pill later. Was there anything in particular that I’m just thinking of anyone who’s listening, who’s got children maybe who are having similar experiences. Was there anything that you would recommend to people to look into first for supporting with that? What was it for you that really helped your cycle not be so awful?

[21:15] Alisha: Interesting question. I don’t know. I don’t remember too much about what it was like when I was 1112 13. I do think that if I was parenting a daughter who was going through what I was going through, I think generally we just have so much more of an awareness of the impact of things like, you know, diet on our hormones and, you know, general well being or working. I think probably the thing that was most transformative for me was starting to work with a naturopath who specialized in women’s health. Before that, I’d really been trying to figure it out on my own through reading books and self education. And at the time, no one in my community was really doing anything in terms of holistic health or even seeing holistic or alternative health practitioners. So I didn’t really know that was even an option. So, yeah, I think my advice would be to go and see a naturopath or someone who’s more going to look at the whole picture of women’s health. Because I think the thing we have to remember is that the menstrual cycle doesn’t exist in isolation and it’s not separate from the rest of our body and the rest of our lives. There are so many things that we do in terms of stress and diet and lifestyle habits and sleep and maybe other things that are going on with our health. All of that is affecting the menstrual cycle. And if something is off, then the menstrual cycle is one of the first things to be affected. So it’s really like, if you’re having difficulties with your menstrual cycle, where it’s really impacting your life, that’s really, to me, like a red flag that there are things that need to be addressed. And I think working with someone so you’re feeling like you’re not alone in that, that was probably the most transformative thing for me.

[23:24] Charlotte: Thank you so much for sharing. I appreciate that, that insight for you. Such good advice.

[23:31] Alisha: Yeah, I think the other piece is that I wish someone had told me at the time, this is absolutely not going to be your experience forever. I think I’d grown up hearing from my mom and my grandmother that they had had similar experiences. So I thought it was really just like my genetic lottery for a long time. And I never would have imagined that I would get to the point where I wouldn’t have crazy pms, I wouldn’t have period pain, and I could really just enjoy my cycle. So having that reminder that being in pain and discomfort and feeling like you’re kind of losing the plot for most of your cycle, like that’s not a normal experience, and that’s not something that you have to just tolerate. It is something that you can change with the right support.

[24:19] Charlotte: That’s gorgeous wisdom. I think that’s something that I hear so much of as well. It’s that we just grow up, we get to that time of puberty, and we just think we’re going to inherit whatever our mothers and grandmothers and sisters and aunties had. And often it seems that these things are inherited and we do go down these paths. So I think that’s a really beautiful reminder that support can help us to change that experience. And there’s plenty, especially nowadays, that we can do to look into that. So thanks so much, Alicia. I’m sure that’s going to be really helpful for people listening. So you’re really into womb wisdom and really connecting to the wisdom of your cycle and your body to support you in your life and your work. And as you were saying, to really work with that and find your flow with that, then I’m really interested just to hear, how do you connect into that for you? What is womb wisdom and how do you connect into your womb’s wisdom?

[25:33] Alisha: That’s such a multifaceted question. I think primarily for me, practicing menstrual cycle awareness is the way that I connect to my womb’s wisdom just on a daily basis. I think connecting in with where I’m at in my cycle and having an understanding of how that affects the way that I feel and what my needs are and how that affects my energy and capacity and my strengths and the challenges that I might be experiencing that day. That really has provided for me like an interior map that helps me live in a way that really both honors my body and nourishes my feminine spirit and helps me be more fully expressed and feel more fulfilled in my life. So that’s very much a daily practice that feels quite second nature to me at this point. I’ve been practicing it for quite a long time. And then I think other practices, like, for example, like self womb massage, or womb steaming, or doing a meditation practice where I connect in with my womb. Those wouldn’t necessarily be on a daily basis, but sort of a few times throughout the month. It would help me connect in in a more intentional way where I have more time. Maybe there’s something specific that I want to focus on. And then probably the other thing that I think has been sort of a mainstay of my practice has been carving out time for some stillness and dreaming in my inner winter during my period. Because not only does that help me rest and replenish so that I can flourish more throughout the rest of my cycle, but that’s also the time for me, like so many others, where I have more direct access to that intuitive, insightful, sometimes like shamanic type space where I can vision and dream and really drop into that liminal space where I can feel like I can plug kind of directly into my womb and get different ideas and visions and clarity around what my next steps are going to be. So that monthly ritual is definitely a non negotiable for me. And I think that’s one of the things that’s had the biggest impact on how I run my business and live my life with a lot more intention and in a way that feels a lot more aligned to my purpose than what I was doing previously.

[28:18] Charlotte: Beautiful. Love the mix of rituals and practices that you’ve got there, like the everyday and then the ones you sprinkle throughout. And yeah, I really love the way you described dropping into your womb and that visioning with your period and into those shamanic realms, the way you described how it brings more intentionality to what you’re doing, it’s like, yes, that’s a beautiful way of explaining it. I really relate to that, too. It’s something that I love to do and I feel like I can really tap into it if I can slow down enough. It’s like, that’s the trick for me. It’s like if life, and children particularly keep trying to sway me out of that space, it’s like I get a bit cranky. It’s like I really want to prioritize that time too. It’s lovely. So, yeah, I love hearing that. That’s something you love to do as well.

[29:13] Alisha: Yeah. And it doesn’t. Yes, it is lovely if we can take a whole day off on day one or two of our cycle, and I personally don’t have children, so that’s a little bit easier for me, but I don’t always do that. I think that practice of making space to just drop in when you’re bleeding can be like 20 minutes. And I think sometimes we can overcomplicate things. Like, there are so many. I definitely got swept up in this initially when I started practicing menstrual cycle awareness, where I would try and take a day off on day one or two of my cycle. And I would almost have this period self care checklist where I think I’ve got to pull cards, I’ve got to journal, I’ve got to do some yin yoga, I’ve got to get outside in nature. And I wasn’t actually relaxing or surrendering into that space of deep rest. And so I wasn’t feeling the way that I thought that I wanted to feel. And I’ve come to realize now that what I actually need, particularly on the first two days of my bleed, is space where I can just do nothing, even if that’s 20 minutes. And for me, my favorite is just going to lie down on my bed or in bed, and I’ll put on some classical music or something and just let my mind drift and my body relax. It’s not a structured meditation, it’s just letting myself soften and receive and letting the mind wander. And just the way that our energetically, we’re primed on those first two days of the cycle. If I don’t really need to do a lot to drop in, like if I let myself just have space, that’s when the insights are going to come in. And then obviously, the added bonus of allowing your body to lie down and do nothing, even if it’s for a short space of time, that’s deeply restful and replenishing. Much more so than binge watching a show or reading a book, which, I mean, I’m guilty of that at times as well as a distraction. But yeah, it doesn’t need to be a structured practice or meditation. It can literally just be like lying down. You can put on a timer for however much time you have and just allow the mind to wander wherever it wants to.

[31:31] Charlotte: Wise words. Yeah, I hear you on that. I think that I’ve definitely witnessed myself and others really sort of go, well, there’s all these rituals, there’s so many beautiful things you could do to honor that part of your cycle. But for me, it’s like I actually just need the deep rest as well, and just to literally zone out and maybe even just nap, but not do otherwise. Like you say, we’re still not actually resting, we’re just replacing it with doing something else. And then maybe for me, like a little ritual or some journaling or journeying can come later, like days three, four or something after I’ve had that chance to just stop. And if I don’t stop, then all hell can break loose. It’s like you just need that circuit breaker of just that rest time. And I think that’s really a beautiful reminder to everyone to not overcomplicate these things. And it doesn’t have to be long, it doesn’t have to be a day like you say. I find it if I can get like an hour, maybe even 2 hours, that would be really lovely because I normally start my period at the weekends. It just seems to be that way at the minute. And so they’re busy days in my house, so it’s just creating a bit of space around that as much as I can. So, yeah, thank you for sharing.

[33:04] Alisha: I love what you said about that time being a circuit breaker and I think that I absolutely agree with that. Yes. Those practices like journaling and visioning and maybe mapping out the coming cycle, just like you said, I think energetically those feel more aligned. Like day 3456, when that energy is starting to reemerge. And we feel that there’s a natural motivation to start wanting to do more again. But the day one and two are such a still energy. It’s a real energy of letting go. Almost like that dark moon before the new moon starts to return. And I think we so often forget that part of any cycle. We can’t just end one cycle and race into doing the next thing. We actually need that pause where there’s emptiness or there’s a void where we can just integrate and rest and receive and then we move to doing the next thing.

[34:05] Charlotte: Yeah, I love that. Like you say, with the dark moon and the new moon, it has to just fade out. You have to have nothing. That darkness, that stillness, that inwardness, that just pause and then we can grow from there. Yeah, I love that. So I’d love to hear more about you said one of the rituals that you do is like self womb massage. And I’d love to hear more about this. I’m not a body worker in any way and I don’t have experience with womb massage and I’m really interested to learn more about it from you. So you do a couple of types of body work that I’m aware of. I’d just love to hear about what that is and why this is something that you. What the benefits of it are, why you offer this, why you do it for self practice too.

[35:03] Alisha: Yeah. So at the moment, I’m offering Wombhara massage. I am trained in holistic pelvic care, and I did offer that for a number of years. I’m not offering that currently just because I’m in a season of my life where I can’t do everything. And yeah, I had to prioritize a little bit, but the Wimhara massage, so I trained with, it’s Natalie Zuckerman from the Institute of Feminine Arts here on the Gold coast. She created this modality, which is so beautiful. And the reason I got into body work initially was because through cycle coaching, obviously you’re working with a lot of people who are experiencing painful periods or various premenstrual challenges, going through fertility journeys, healing from all sorts of things. Most of us have been through some kind of transformative or traumatic womb experiences throughout our lifetimes. And yeah, I was learning a lot and experiencing a lot around how the pelvic bowl and the womb in the body not only holds physical tension, but holds so much energetically and emotionally. And I wanted to be able to offer something that would support with that aspect of it. And so initially it was holistic pelvic care, which is sort of a combination of energy work and internal vaginal massage. So working with the pelvic floor, which I absolutely loved offering, and that really taught me so much about working with energy and everything I’ve learned about energetic womb work, because holistic pelvic care was a lot of guiding, almost like shamanic vision journeys in conjunction with doing the massage. And so that piece of it I bring into my womb, hara massage, because I really love the combination of working with the physical body and then working with energetic, emotional, ancestral, all of those types of things as well. So Wumhara massage is a really gentle, nourishing massage that works with the abdomen and the pelvic bowl area. So the massage itself includes the back, specifically, like the lower back and sacrum, the back of the pelvic bowl, the glutes around the tailbone, and then on the front of the body, we’re really working with the whole soft part of the belly, so around the diaphragm, up under the ribs, like the whole digestive system, down to the womb, and the ovaries in the lower belly. And it can support with so many things, different premenstrual symptoms, like period pain, cramps. If women are having spotting or difficulties with their periods, it really just restores circulation and blood flow and energy to the womb space. It helps to shift and clear a lot of stagnant energy, whether that’s like physical tension or emotional, energetic stuff that we’re holding on to. It can support with healing scar tissue, endometriosis, fibroids, cysts, preconception, postpartum care, perimenopause, menopause, healing from different kinds of trauma, whether that’s birth trauma, miscarriage, abortion, sexual trauma, things like that. But I just find that the energy of wumhara is so nourishing, it really creates this space of where women can feel safe to soften and be held. It’s really gentle, and it’s working with the body to create the space for the body to release and let go as it’s ready to. And then most women have never had their belly touched or massaged. It’s a space that’s not really included in regular massage. Like, I’ve definitely never had anyone massage my abdomen in the regular massage, and we can hold so much tension there. Like, in the womb space, yes. But also the digestive system, it supports with digestive difficulties, feeling like our breathing and our diaphragm is really stuck when we massage the belly, we’re also supporting the nervous system, like the vagus nerve. And so it’s really multifaceted in the way that it can support us and the benefits that it can provide. So, yeah, it’s the massage, and then I tend to combine that with the energy work, and even sometimes guiding visualizations and the more shamanic journeys, like, where it’s appropriate and where it’s aligned with that person’s particular intentions.

[40:15] Charlotte: Wow, it sounds incredible. Sounds really special, and I can just imagine how beautiful it would be. I’m really, like, I want to have a go. Like, I’ve never had a. I’ve never had a treatment, and it sounds really beautiful, like, working on those multiple layers and different realms. And like you say, yeah, I’ve never had my belly touched either, or massaged. And I can just imagine how all of those parts of our bodies, how that can just support so much with moving energy and releasing. And you said about supporting the body to release when it’s ready to. I just had a question pop into my mind as I was listening, and I just wondered simply whether there’s an optimal time of the menstrual cycle to have this kind of treatment. Or would you go when you had your period or beforehand, like, in the premenstrual phase, or anytime?

[41:16] Alisha: There are some general contraindications for Wimhara. So if you are actively trying to get pregnant or you think you might be pregnant, you wouldn’t want to have the massage after ovulation. If there’s a chance that you could be pregnant, just because we don’t want to disrupt the nest if there is a chance of conception. And for women who have really heavy or painful periods, you might want to avoid getting a massage during your period or like the day or two before, just because it can sometimes make the period heavier. So if that’s something that you’re already struggling with, you might want to. Might not want to intensify that. So whether or not you have it during your period is just a personal preference, really? Yeah, I think you can have it really at any time in the cycle that you feel guided to, unless there’s a particular physical reason why you might not want to.

[42:14] Charlotte: Yeah.

[42:15] Alisha: Beautiful.

[42:15] Charlotte: I love that thing. That’s part of, I guess, forming your intention for where you’re coming and noticing what’s going on for you, where you’re at in your life and whether you are trying to conceive or not. But, yeah, it sounds like a very special modality as well. And is that something that you recommend people have regularly or just as and when they think they need it?

[42:42] Alisha: Yeah. So usually I would recommend it depends on the reason why you’re coming. If you were just coming because you wanted to generally release some tension and you wanted to feel more connected to your womb, maybe one session is enough. If you’re coming because you’re on a fertility journey or you are wanting to support your body because you’re having really disruptive periods or, like, intense premenstrual symptoms, or you’re healing scar tissue or you’re moving through some kind of trauma or something. Usually then in that case, I would recommend, like, minimum of two or three sessions because we definitely don’t want to come in with the mindset that I’m going to try and fix everything in one session. We just want to work with the body to create the connection and create that space where the body can start to shift gently and slowly. Like, we definitely don’t want to rush or feel like we’re forcing any kind of outcome. Usually initially when people work with me, it’s somewhere between two to four sessions and then coming back if there’s a need, like maybe some kind of challenge arises or you feeling like you’re holding a lot of tension in your abdomen or you’re going through a time of transition or stress where you feel like you need that extra support moving through a season, like you’re preparing for pregnancy or you’re postpartum and you’re wanting some care and support, there so, yeah, initially it’s usually a few closer together and then sort of as needed, depending on what’s going on. But I like to get them every three to four months or so. I feel like a few times a year, even when I’m feeling like everything’s good, I’m surprised, usually, at how much tension is collected.

[44:45] Charlotte: Yeah, amazing. And I’m really interested as well. I’d love to hear your thoughts on, you mentioned ancestral patterns and tensions and things that we hold on to. Could you just share with us a bit about what you mean by that and then how that’s stored in the body, like the womb particularly?

[45:13] Alisha: Yes.

[45:16] Charlotte: Sorry to put you on the spot there.

[45:18] Alisha: No, really interested. There’s a lot that I could say, and so I’m just trying to think of where I want to start. We can hold imprints from any of our ancestors. I think, particularly for women, it’s often more commonly from our female ancestors, especially through the mother line, or even imprints from our own birth experience, our experience of conception and being in the womb and birth. There are different sorts of ways I can work with. Often when I really encourage, when women come in and we’re working with massage, my advice is always to stay really present with the body and notice what comes up. Often we don’t even need to have a specific intention around physical, around ancestral healing, although sometimes that is the intention. Sometimes someone will come in and say, this is going on in my relationship with my mother, I would like to see what comes up around this. But sometimes, just when we’re working with the body and we’re paying close attention to what sensations we’re experiencing, what emotions are coming up, maybe different images or memories or things that will arise just through working with the body, often things are cleared that way. Sometimes, I’m not going to say easy, but sometimes it happens naturally in that kind of way. And sometimes it’s more intentional, where if someone has a specific relationship or experience or imprint that they want to work around, I’ll guide them through a visualization like healing or clearing process that’s more tailored to what their specific intentions are. I’ve had some pretty profound experiences with seeing what clients work through. Sometimes ancestral healing is not even on their radar, but they’ll come in and we’ll get into energetically working with one of the ovaries, for example, and the kind of the rabbit hole we go down ends up leading to an ancestral imprint from a great great grandfather or something. And then when we can clear that, all of a sudden the physical tension that was really stubborn. Just absolutely releases and lets go.

[47:53] Charlotte: Wow.

[47:54] Alisha: Yeah. The ancestral healing and the energetic imprints that that leaves, I think is one of the most fascinating aspects of body work for me. I think it’s really interesting. It can show up in so many ways and it can be so unexpected in the way that it manifests in the physical body. Yeah. I don’t know if that answers your question.

[48:17] Charlotte: Oh, it does. Yeah. Thank you so much for sharing that. I think it’s absolutely fascinating and I’m really interested in it from a rites of passage point of view. Like the way that we experience, for example, our childhood and then our first periods, and then our cycle experiences. It’s so shaped by not just our lived experiences, but the experiences of the women in our lineage before us, but everybody who’s been before us and carved the way and the legacy that we’re inheriting. And I know that we can store all this as energy in our body. And I was so interested to hear how that comes out, how you can access that and release that in a massage point of view. I think that’s just wonderful, really special to be able to access that and help people to release it and maybe come into new relationship with their body and themselves, and maybe their mothers and the ancestors before as well. So it’s fascinating to hear about. Thank you.

[49:35] Alisha: Yeah, I think the one thing I just want to add is my experience has been, and the feedback that I’ve had from clients, both through doing holistic pelvic care and Wimha massage, is that there’s something about the physical touch and being held in a space by someone that allows easier access to what’s going on energetically or emotionally? I could do the same visualization with someone, just like lying there and guiding them through the visualization versus guiding them through that visualization while working with the physical body, through the power of touch. And the experience is just so much deeper when we combine it with the physical touch. There’s something about it. Just the combination of working energetically and physically at the same time can really shift and unlock things quicker than just working energetically by itself.

[50:42] Charlotte: Wow. Amazing. And you’ve said that this is something that people can try themselves at home and create their own sort of self massage practice. How would somebody start to do that if you’ve never had it before or got no experience before? And I’m just curious as well. Do you think this is like a gentle way in? If someone sort of wanted to see somebody, but wanted to maybe get comfortable with touching these parts of our bodies that aren’t normally touched. What would your advice be?

[51:20] Alisha: Yeah, I think we should all be touching our own bodies. I think massaging your own belly is a really beautiful practice no matter where you are on your journey. If you’re completely new to connecting with your cycle in your womb or you’ve been doing this for a long time. So where you would start? So you’d want to get some kind of oil or balm that you can massage with. I really love shea butter is my favorite. Organic shea butter. But you can use coconut oil or even like, organic castor oil or olive oil. Anything. Probably you’ve got something in your pantry that you could use. And then I would just start with when you’re massaging and you can putting your fingertips in your belly and just making some really gentle circles and kind of moving over your whole abdomen and noticing just what’s there. Like, where are you feeling tension? Where are things feeling stuck or tender? Noticing, for example, the changes in temperature in your skin. Like, are some parts of your belly cold to touch or as others feel warm, for example, and really starting to just be present and pay attention and, yeah, I mean, I think it’s a lot simpler than people think. I think generally, really gentle circular massaging motions are a really great place to start. So if you’re doing bigger circles on the belly, you always want to be moving in a clockwise direction just because that supports digestion. Yeah, I think you can’t really go wrong with some self massage. Just start by noticing what’s there, what sensation, the temperature. And again, like I said earlier, noticing as you’re massaging, what sensations are you experiencing in terms of, is there some kind of emotion that’s coming up? Is there something that pops into your mind when you’re massaging a certain point, and you don’t need to necessarily understand what the connection is or why something is there or even do anything with that. It’s just trusting that that might be something that your body is bringing up to let go of or shift, and that what you’re doing with the gentle physical touch is all you need to be doing in that moment.

[53:44] Charlotte: Beautiful. That sounds really lovely and like a really easy way in for someone who’s really curious about having a deeper connection to that part of their body. And I think there’s lots in there that, like you said, it’s simple and just listening and beautiful. Thank you.

[54:04] Alisha: Just by using that touch and bringing warmth, like, you’re increasing blood flow and you’re increasing circulation. So even if it’s a short practice or you’re not really sure what you’re doing, your body is still going to receive some benefits from that.

[54:17] Charlotte: Yeah. And like you say, just from touching that part of your body and even if you’re not really sure what you’re doing, but just bringing some awareness and some love to. That’s beautiful. And so where can people find you, Alicia, you’re in Queensland. So if anyone wanted to come for a treatment, how can people connect with you and reach out?

[54:42] Alisha: Yeah, so I am in Eleanora on the Gold Coast. I have a little home clinic that I practice out of. So if you happen to be local, I would love to meet you. And if you’re not local, I know there are Wimhara massage practitioners all over Australia, so I’m sure that you would be able to find someone that was close to you. And yeah, all my cycle coaching and energy work I can do online via Zoom as well. So I work with clients that way.

[55:10] Charlotte: Beautiful. Thank you. And what was your Instagram? Are you on Instagram at the minute?

[55:16] Alisha: I am. So my Instagram is just Alicia Rose Kruger and then my website is aliciarosecruger.com. So easy to find.

[55:24] Charlotte: Easy, yeah. And I’ll pop it all in the show notes and I’d just like to ask a closing question and just invite you to share with us and drop into what’s the greatest thing that connecting to your body’s wisdom has gifted you?

[55:42] Alisha: Um, I think I would have to say sovereignty. And what I mean by that is I have such a reverence for my body now and a deep trust in my own wisdom and a feeling of being centered within myself that I really didn’t have before I started this practice. I feel like, I think back to being like 1920. I was constantly looking outside myself, like, how should I eat, how should I exercise, how should I run my business and very much outsourcing my power and my wisdom. And I didn’t have a particularly loving relationship with my body, whereas now I just feel like I have such a reverence for my body. I feel so in awe of her and how she works and her wisdom. And I feel very connected to my own power and creative energy and intuition. And there’s like a confidence and so many gifts that come with that that I’m just really grateful for.

[56:47] Charlotte: So, yeah, sovereignty, I would have to say that’s amazing. So powerful. I really feel that. I feel that too for myself. It’s really relate to what you’re saying about turning inwards for wisdom and guidance and not outwards and it’s something that’s come with maturity, but also very much mostly down to listening to my body and working with the cycles and yeah, just tuning inwards in that way. That’s beautiful. Yeah, I really relate to that. Thank you so much Alisha. I’ve absolutely loved chatting with you and hearing more about your amazing work. And yeah, everybody, you can go and find Alisha and practice your womb massage if you would like to. Otherwise, you can reach out for some massage with her as well if you’re around the Gold coast or fancy a trip to the Gold coast.

[57:52] Alisha: Thank you so much for having me. I’ve so enjoyed our conversation.

[57:56] Charlotte: Thanks Alisha. Thanks so much for listening to wildflow. I love having you here. If you’re loving this podcast, why not leave a rating and review and share your favorite episodes with those you think would love to listen? And if you share on Instagram, tag me at Charlotte.Pointeaux.coach to take the next step in your own journey of learning how to live, love and lead and flow with your cyclical nature. And for deeper guidance and support in your cycle embodiment journey, you can discover my freebies and join my wildflow coven, my new cycle wisdom membership, or even discover my group programs, private cycle coaching and courses all on my website. Until next time, go well with the flow of your body’s cyclic nature.

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meet your host

Picture of Charlotte Pointeaux

Charlotte Pointeaux

Charlotte Pointeaux is an Internationally Award-Winning triple-Certified Coach, Youth Mentor, Host of Wild Flow Podcast, a sought-after guest menstrual educator and speaker. She is a Shamanic Womancrafter, a Priestess of the Cycle Mysteries.

Charlotte’s work as a Wild Feminine Cycle Coach weaves together shamanic womb healing and rite of passage work with menstrual cycle awareness and feminine embodiment tools, to guide women through their transformational journey of reclaiming their wild feminine cyclic powers to expressing their big magick as a sacred leader.

Charlotte founded First Moon Circles®, a renowned facilitator training program, to train new menstrual educators to prepare, honour and celebrate children and their care-givers at menarche (their first period). To date, she has trained almost 100 facilitators across 5 continents and is on a mission to infuse families, friendships, classrooms and communities with period positivity and menstrually inclusive practices.

Download your free menstrual magick guide by subscribing to my newsletter, and discover my coaching, courses and short classes at www.charlottepointeaux.com/coaching.

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